Who is the best coach in the Pro 12?

[outcast eddie]

In my humble opinion Woody Harrelson lookalike Gregor Townsend as the top coach in the league.

Glasgow look like a very well drilled team who's basic skillset is top drawer and I'd find it easier to concede the trophy to them than any other team in the competition.

[Xanthippe]

In my humble opinion Woody Harrelson lookalike Gregor Townsend as the top coach in the league.

Glasgow look like a very well drilled team who's basic skillset is top drawer and I'd find it easier to concede the trophy to them than any other team in the competition.

With Joe gone he undoubtedly is at the moment but remember he is in his second season and last year Glasgow didn't look all that - would he be the perfect argument that any new coach needs to be given at least two seasons to get the best from his team?

I expect that this time next season we could be including Pat Lam in this debate and hopefully Matt O'Connor too.

[sid]

Matt O'Connor.

[ceemec]

There's no doubting that Townsend has done a good job but I wouldn't have him down as best coach in the league. Glasgow were in the play offs the season before he arrived. Since he came on the scene, he has been given significant backing and allowed to sign some major players for his team in Maitland, Strauss and Lamont. Admittedly, he lost Gray and Beattie but the aforementioned lads would have come at a significant cost.

When push came to shove in the HEC though, his team were way off the pace. They've finished bottom of their pool in both seasons so not sure how great he has done overall.

I think Penney has done a really good job at Munster. He has brought through a number of players and continued the development work started by McGahan. He took over and went through a hard first season but has come through really well and brought his team to another level in both competitions.

[Morf]

Axel Fo .. . never mind.

[Peg Leg]

There's no doubting that Townsend has done a good job but I wouldn't have him down as best coach in the league. Glasgow were in the play offs the season before he arrived. Since he came on the scene, he has been given significant backing and allowed to sign some major players for his team in Maitland, Strauss and Lamont. Admittedly, he lost Gray and Beattie but the aforementioned lads would have come at a significant cost.

When push came to shove in the HEC though, his team were way off the pace. They've finished bottom of their pool in both seasons so not sure how great he has done overall.

I think Penney has done a really good job at Munster. He has brought through a number of players and continued the development work started by McGahan. He took over and went through a hard first season but has come through really well and brought his team to another level in both competitions.

Was going to suggest Penney when I read the op.

[Morf]

Was going to suggest Penney when I read the op.

What are your terms of reference?

Technical/tactical knowledge or the ability to get the best out of the least resources/less fancied players?

[Peg Leg]

Was going to suggest Penney when I read the op.

What are your terms of reference?

Technical/tactical knowledge or the ability to get the best out of the least resources/less fancied players?

Consistent progress, marrying traditional Munster rugby with a bit of attacking verve, set piece has been great and he's brought in some good lads in stander and vdh.

[goreyguy]

not MOC.

[ceemec]

Was going to suggest Penney when I read the op.

What are your terms of reference?

Technical/tactical knowledge or the ability to get the best out of the least resources/less fancied players?

He has improved things across the board. He took over a side that McGahan had tried to reinvent and done some good work but taken the team as far as he could under that incarnation. He came in, stripped down the side and the way they played and built it back up under his own vision. They've become a more tactically astute side under his guidance despite the retirement of the most tactically influential player they've ever had. Their attack and defence in the HEC has improved hugely under him and they've transferred that to the Pro12 this season also.

He has developed the side significantly and a glut of players have come through from being squad players to important members of the first 23 under him: Kilcoyne, Archer, Foley, TOD, Stander and Keatley have all developed significantly. Even someone like Archer has improved hugely. Then already established guys like Murray and POM have moved up to another level over the past 2 seasons.

I think if he was sticking around for another contract, Munster would have one great shot at winning silverware next season.

[simonokeeffe]

Mark Anscombe for me, admittedly side a bit dependent on Pienaar
Easterby has recruited well on minimal resources
Townsend has done a good job but inherited a decent/burgeoning side

[Xanthippe]

not MOC.

Oh FFS, can wd have one thread that doesn't turn into a MOC OUT thread

[offshorerules]

not MOC.

Oh FFS, can wd have one thread that doesn't turn into a MOC OUT thread

Apparently not

[Oldschool]

Changing the thread slightly. Is it not the case that the NZ coaches by and large are proving to be the best coaches in not only PRO12 but NH professional rugby.
Joe, Gattie, Anscombe, Penney just for starters.

[JB1973]

Townsend or Penney for me .

I'm happy enough with Tandy, at a time when we are losing nearly all our top players he has won silver wear , kept us in the top 5 in the pro 12 and helped to develop lots of youngsters.

[Munsterboy]

Would agree that Penney and Townsend have done good jobs but it's very hard to compare coaches across the league given the disparity in resources etc.

Looking at Munster over the last couple of seasons, Penney has done reasonably well. Our young players are coming along nicely and we have much more depth now than when he started, partly due to his intelligent approach to selection. He is very adept at balancing the need to develop fringe players while winning our Rabo games and priming our first choice XV for the big HEC games.
Our forward play is also in a much better state than when he arrived but our back play is still very hit and miss. How much of the former is down to Foley and the latter to Mannix is hard to say but the buck stops with Penney on both counts. One thing he can certainly take the credit for is our scrum. He has looked after it in person and it's come on in leaps and bounds.
Overall he's made some good strides and is certainly a better coach than his predecessor but it has to be said that he arrived at the right time - just as a number of young players were reaching maturity. I'm disappointed he's not staying on but he's not irreplaceable and the players, culture and structures are there to ensure we continue along the upward curve.

By contrast, while MOC has disappointed Leinster fans, he had a very hard act to follow and he also took over a team past its peak. Much like Kidney, Joe moved on at the right time and his successor has the almost impossible job of rebuilding the team under the weight of supporters' expectation that Leinster will challenge for European honours every year. Very few coaches in any sport can manage that, unless they're given a big wedge of cash to buy in replacements, which is not the IRFU way (nor should it be).

Of the other Irish provincial coaches, I'm not sure about Lam yet. Connacht have played some good rugby this season but they're still very inconsistent. His second season in charge will tell us a lot. I think Anscombe has done a pretty good job with Ulster. They play a nice brand of rugby and could have been contenders for both cups this year. I rate him as one of the best in the league.

[olaf the fat]

How is top of the league?

The current league leaders lost a lot of talent since last season, also hampered by injury to top players and old age.

Not everybody is happy with the teams performance, but surely winning is about positives not negatives.

[Flash Gordon]

Would agree that Penney and Townsend have done good jobs but it's very hard to compare coaches across the league given the disparity in resources etc.

Looking at Munster over the last couple of seasons, Penney has done reasonably well. Our young players are coming along nicely and we have much more depth now than when he started, partly due to his intelligent approach to selection. He is very adept at balancing the need to develop fringe players while winning our Rabo games and priming our first choice XV for the big HEC games.
Our forward play is also in a much better state than when he arrived but our back play is still very hit and miss. How much of the former is down to Foley and the latter to Mannix is hard to say but the buck stops with Penney on both counts. One thing he can certainly take the credit for is our scrum. He has looked after it in person and it's come on in leaps and bounds.
Overall he's made some good strides and is certainly a better coach than his predecessor but it has to be said that he arrived at the right time - just as a number of young players were reaching maturity. I'm disappointed he's not staying on but he's not irreplaceable and the players, culture and structures are there to ensure we continue along the upward curve.

By contrast, while MOC has disappointed Leinster fans, he had a very hard act to follow and he also took over a team past its peak. Much like Kidney, Joe moved on at the right time and his successor has the almost impossible job of rebuilding the team under the weight of supporters' expectation that Leinster will challenge for European honours every year. Very few coaches in any sport can manage that, unless they're given a big wedge of cash to buy in replacements, which is not the IRFU way (nor should it be).

Of the other Irish provincial coaches, I'm not sure about Lam yet. Connacht have played some good rugby this season but they're still very inconsistent. His second season in charge will tell us a lot. I think Anscombe has done a pretty good job with Ulster. They play a nice brand of rugby and could have been contenders for both cups this year. I rate him as one of the best in the league.

Not sure that the team is past its peak. The bulk of the team won the 6 nations with Ireland after all. There are a couple of players for whom that's probably true but there are players at their peak and players who definitely stepped up performance wise this year. The outhalf situation is a critical difference and whatever your views on Madigan, the position has been very very badly managed by the coach.

All in all, when I look at the coaches in the league, there's not one that I'd want to be the next Leinster coach to be honest, its a sea of mediocrity!

[Morf]

Would agree that Penney and Townsend have done good jobs but it's very hard to compare coaches across the league given the disparity in resources etc.

This being the main point really.

Lam helping to bring through players without an ingrained atmosphere of valiant losers (as much) could be monumental.

[ronk]

I thought about saying Easterby for a while but I'm going with Anscombe.

He's done a really good job with Ulster and he has worked wonders with Nick Williams. Can keep world class stars happy at the same time as bringing through young players.