Heineken Semi Finals

[Toulon fan]

If Clermont has had an international flyhalf... I agree, that's Vern Cotter and Lhermet major mistake.

[offshorerules]

It would kill me if this Saracen team lift the cup.

Indeed. If the shower largely responsible for destroying the tournament end up being the last ones to win it, I'll be sick to my stomach.
The thought of watching the smug faces of Wray and Griffiths celebrating with the people they've paid to pretend to be Saracens fans for the day is frankly nauseating.

Whoever wins tomorrow is the team I'll be backing for the final, which I more than likely won't even watch.

They wont win, the bad guys never do!!

What about the baddies in The empire strikes back?

[VGE]

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain


Au revoir.

[sid]

Ashton got two tries and no "ash splash", does he not realise the boat has already sailed on him being anything other than a pr##k. Good rugby player but bad sportsman, and it's not just an age thing.

He just can't win, can he? If he did do it you'd be calling him a pr!*k for it.

[olaf the fat]

Ashton got two tries and no "ash splash", does he not realise the boat has already sailed on him being anything other than a pr##k. Good rugby player but bad sportsman, and it's not just an age thing.

He just can't win, can he? If he did do it you'd be calling him a pr!*k for it.

Yeah, he lost that battle long ago. He is still a very good player though, if he continues people may remember him for that.

[TerenureJim]

Sarries warning their supporters to buy tickets before tomorrow's match because they reckon "Approximately 15,000 tickets remain available on general sale, but these will evaporate like the morning mist if Munster defeat Toulon in the second semi-final" - apparently making it to the final has caused them to come over all poetic like!

http://www.saracens.com/heineken-cup-final-cardiff/

If Toulon win today I'd expect we'll likely see the lowest attended final since 2003, tournament sort of going out on a whimper. How many people turned up to that dire semi in Twickenham yesterday? And Nigel Wray thinks he has what it takes to develop the sport at this level......

[Dexter]

Clermont is simply weaker this year.
The real opportunities were the last two years.
Today the best won. Simply.

Au revoir.

Was thinking the same thing. I think ASM were at their peak in 2012, it just so happened that Leinster were also at a peak. They've declined a good bit in the last year or so.

[Vamos los azules]

Clermont is simply weaker this year.
The real opportunities were the last two years.
Today the best won. Simply.

Au revoir.

Was thinking the same thing. I think ASM were at their peak in 2012, it just so happened that Leinster were also at a peak. They've declined a good bit in the last year or so.

Their squad are old now. I would have liked to have seen Rougerie lift the European cup as I've always been a fan of him but I really think 2012 was the moment the dream got away for him.

They have the money to go to market for some post World Cup proven winners and may yet change the choker culture and claim the big prizes but at this stage I don't believe that current squad is capable of doing so.

[Vamos los azules]

How many people turned up to that dire semi in Twickenham yesterday? And Nigel Wray thinks he has what it takes to develop the sport at this level....

How was the semi dire out of curiosity?

I've little time for Wray and Griffiths but you have to respect the Saracens players for their on pitch work. Their defensive effort was immense and their 22 year old out half (who has a slightly unjustified reputation for being nothing but a kicker) played on one leg because he was the less injured of their two options and showed there is so much more to his game than just kicking. Alex Goode also showed that he was a big loss to the team going off so early in the quarter final.

[TerenureJim]

How many people turned up to that dire semi in Twickenham yesterday? And Nigel Wray thinks he has what it takes to develop the sport at this level....

How was the semi dire out of curiosity?

I've little time for Wray and Griffiths but you have to respect the Saracens players for their on pitch work. Their defensive effort was immense and their 22 year old out half (who has a slightly unjustified reputation for being nothing but a kicker) played on one leg because he was the less injured of their two options and showed there is so much more to his game than just kicking. Alex Goode also showed that he was a big loss to the team going off so early in the quarter final.

Sorry meant to say last year, but I think the point stands regardless, yesterday saw a Clermont team just fall to pieces against a tough Sarries side (who got some decisions in the 50/50 calls). To be honest I thought yesterday's game wasn't great and I was disappointed to see a HEC semi final that couldn't even sell out the lower bowl of Twickenham.

[Vamos los azules]

How many people turned up to that dire semi in Twickenham yesterday? And Nigel Wray thinks he has what it takes to develop the sport at this level....

How was the semi dire out of curiosity?

I've little time for Wray and Griffiths but you have to respect the Saracens players for their on pitch work. Their defensive effort was immense and their 22 year old out half (who has a slightly unjustified reputation for being nothing but a kicker) played on one leg because he was the less injured of their two options and showed there is so much more to his game than just kicking. Alex Goode also showed that he was a big loss to the team going off so early in the quarter final.

Sorry meant to say last year, but I think the point stands regardless, yesterday saw a Clermont team just fall to pieces against a tough Sarries side (who got some decisions in the 50/50 calls). To be honest I thought yesterday's game wasn't great and I was disappointed to see a HEC semi final that couldn't even sell out the lower bowl of Twickenham.

The problem with Saracens is that now no-one sees any of the good stuff that the club does because it is buried under the many layers of cr@p. The wolf pack thing is a bit cringy, but there is 100 times more team spirit and fight for each other in that Saracens squad than Clermont were able to muster (and several other teams across the leagues that I can think of).

They aren't just the club full of big money foreign imports that they are perceived to be. They had promising young English players like Barrington, George, Wray and Streather on the bench yesterday and have more in Fraser, Spencer, Mordt and Ransom coming through. Harlequins and Exeter are praised for developing the young English talent but Saracens are doing plenty of it themselves.

Owen Farrell does a celebration thing when he scores to draw attention to a particular charity but the only celebration talked about is that stupid Ashton dive.

They could be a great team and build a solid fanbase, but ironically the ones pouring the money in to them could be the ones that ultimately stop it happening because of all the awful stunts that they pull along the way.

[TerenureJim]

The whole point is about the ones calling the shots and the monster they've created. Little classless things like turning on the music to drown out visiting fans. Seems like they'd be happier buying a football team but that's a different level of billionaire.

[nc6000]

So of the four teams through to the Heineken & Amlin finals three are backed by the money men who were more than happy for their teams to not be involved in the competitions after this season. I hope nobody wins the two finals in May.

[suisse]

Alain Rolland to get the Final to end his career on a personal high?

Chris Ashton's work - the break and stunning pass off his right - for the penultimate try (Wyles I think) was absolutely brilliant. He seemed to lose his way last season but that was emphatic. I don't get the Ashton hatred for his celebrations - there's always a bit of hypocrisy attached to. Took his tries really well.

[offshorerules]

Alain Rolland to get the Final to end his career on a personal high?

Chris Ashton's work - the break and stunning pass off his right - for the penultimate try (Wyles I think) was absolutely brilliant. He seemed to lose his way last season but that was emphatic. I don't get the Ashton hatred for his celebrations - there's always a bit of hypocrisy attached to. Took his tries really well.

I get the hatred but I agree it's a bit strong. I think he's just not very likeable.

[Peg Leg]

Give me classless swan dives over patronising "head pat" any day of the week, thank you!

[VGE]

Can someone find a right translation of this please?

La vie de supporter de l'ASM n'est qu'une suite de petites déceptions au milieu desquelles survient, de temps en temps, une grande désillusion

That's how hard our ASM fan's life is lol



Au revoir.

[artaneboy]

Borthwick on BBC Radio 4 news this morning at 7.30. Usual guff on tough task ahead in final, etc. Then the interviewer asks for his view for the reason for the relatively poor attendance at their Semi. His reply is a beauty of 'on message' Wray briefing. Paraphrase here 'Can't say really why the attendance was poor; but this was an ERC controlled match. When we (Saracens) had control over the matches in Wembley, we filled the stadium, etc...'

Breathless at the cheek. Ye can fill a ground with €5 tickets when your are prepared to throw away your own money- but when you are participating as part of the major revenue raising of the shared competition and you fail to take advantage- at least have the grace to admit your discomfort. The Semis are a major part of the revenue raising base of the competitions. Don't try and blame the organisation for your failures- or imply that you could do better. Papering the ground may work in small scale competitions such as the AP or LV Cups- but not in Europe where the rest of us have to dip our bread.

[mikerob]

Saracens just don't have that big a core support so they *need* ticket giveaways, some act popular wit' da kidz at half time and months of marketing to fill a stadium like Wembley or Twickenham. And the people who come to these events are just there for the event, not many would de Saracens supporters.

I suspect that is why they are talking of moving the QFs to immediately after the group stages rather than having them in April as it gives another few months to market the games.

The 3 major Irish provinces and even Cardiff can fill a home stadium at the drop of a hat, but the English teams can't as they just don't have that many supporters.

[[Jackass]]

Around this time of year usually delivers some favourite headlines

Leinster lose 29 - 14 in fortress Mayol

One article of note in national papers: "Champions Toulon too strong for sloppy Leinster"

Munster lose 24 - 16 in a neutral venue to a decidedly more edgy and less accurate looking Toulon who butchered a couple of tries but took all their chances against Leinster...

"Courageous Munster pay ultimate price for error-prone performance" (Munster were courageous but error prone, Leinster were sloppy)
"Toulon end battling Munster's Heineken Cup dreams"
"Munster’s bravery not enough as Toulon march on"
"Toulon march on after Munster’s brave effort comes up short"

Also, someone needs to buy these guys a Thesaurus.