French Top14

[leinster4life13]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Forget about other sports, we have the player numbers, we just need to make them better, how do you do that? Viable competition ITM=AIL, upskill players and mandatory strength and conditioning in every club school from under 12s upwards.

[Dave Cahill]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Forget about other sports, we have the player numbers, we just need to make them better, how do you do that? Viable competition ITM=AIL, upskill players and mandatory strength and conditioning in every club school from under 12s upwards.

Your previous post said we need to increase player numbers, in the above you say we have the player numbers. Which is it?

[leinster4life13]

Your previous post said we need to increase player numbers, in the above you say we have the player numbers. Which is it?

Both, lol, In comparison to NZ we have similar player numbers but we are not utilising them as efficiently, we waste a massive amount of players, look at the drop off rates from under20's, simply by retaining those numbers we would see an increase, by making things more professional in the AIL you would retain and grow numbers. In the long run we need to increase player numbers for the sole purpose of chancing on a player who could be great, throw enough sh!t at a wall and all of that...

[Dave Cahill]

Your previous post said we need to increase player numbers, in the above you say we have the player numbers. Which is it?

Both, lol, In comparison to NZ we have similar player numbers but we are not utilising them as efficiently, we waste a massive amount of players, look at the drop off rates from under20's, simply by retaining those numbers we would see an increase, by making things more professional in the AIL you would retain and grow numbers. In the long run we need to increase player numbers for the sole purpose of chancing on a player who could be great, throw enough sh!t at a wall and all of that...

Its a fallacy though. We don't 'waste a massive amount of players'. Not everyone wants to be a professional sportsperson. Yes, there is a big drop off from u20s, and when looked at in isolation it looks bad, but the majority of that is by choice. People develop and change, have other things in their lives, other goals. And in Ireland, unlike New Zealand, other elite level sports. Some of it is down to burn out (and the mandatory S&C you suggest would only increase that) but the reality is that the things you want to do when you're sixteen and the things you want to do when you're 21 are very different.

[Keith]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Your not thinking in the long term. NZ are already losing a lot of players to Japan and Europe, some of whom could be squad players.

As the average wage continues to go up, NZ could be really struggling to hold onto all their top players in just a few years time.

[ronk]

Leinster have invested very, very heavily. Just not in buying ready made players so much.

We've massively upgraded our training facilities and academy.

There are two things that Leinster management need to do. They need to be efficient and organised, and they need not to panic.

We can keep growing and we have a latent market that means that we could dwarf Toulon in 10-15 years. We have a 50k seater stadium waiting until we can fill it and the population to match. So long as there's a focus on doing a good job and stupid risks don't get taken out of desperation we will be fine.

We never had the budget to be able to continuously adapt at the pace that Toulon can. We're a really good side who have had to develop more of a power game to catch up. We can win the Champions Cup next season but we're not favourites anymore. That's all, but we're in the top 3 clubs to avoid and we can beat Toulon if we're on form, I'm convinced of that.

[Morf]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Having plentiful Polynesian genes that players mature earlier and have higher bone density (according to a physio I know) helps quite a bit too.

[simonokeeffe]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Having plentiful Polynesian genes that players mature earlier and have higher bone density (according to a physio I know) helps quite a bit too.

and the haka, who wouldnt want to do that

[Dave Cahill]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Your not thinking in the long term. NZ are already losing a lot of players to Japan and Europe, some of whom could be squad players.

As the average wage continues to go up, NZ could be really struggling to hold onto all their top players in just a few years time.

New Zealand have always lost players, even when the game was oh yes yer honour compeltely amatooooer me never taken a penny to play that would be wrong m'lud you couldn't throw a stone from Galway to the Balkans without hitting an All Black

[Morf]

New Zealand have always lost players, even when the game was oh yes yer honour compeltely amatooooer me never taken a penny to play that would be wrong m'lud you couldn't throw a stone from Galway to the Balkans without hitting an All Black

The Aussies/Kiwis have traditionally had the "grand tour" element to their maturing generation and quite a few put down roots.

[leinster4life13]

How do NZ do it? .

By not having three massively more popular sports in front of rugby for a start

Having plentiful Polynesian genes that players mature earlier and have higher bone density (according to a physio I know) helps quite a bit too.

You can fasttrack that maturation by early uptake of weight training and diet, just look at Trevor Brennans kids. Weights and diet from a young age, we dont have that culture in Ireland, people are afraid of weights/dont think its necessary, I still know people who think lifting will stunt your growth and creatine is steroids Look at the Eastern europeans, they dominate oly lifting because they start early and train often, we need to do the same here, not leaving it until you are 16/17 before you start.

[Morf]

You can fasttrack that maturation by early uptake of weight training and diet, just look at Trevor Brennans kids. Weights and diet from a young age, we dont have that culture in Ireland, people are afraid of weights/dont think its necessary, I still know people who think lifting will stunt your growth and creatine is steroids Look at the Eastern europeans, they dominate oly lifting because they start early and train often, we need to do the same here, not leaving it until you are 16/17 before you start.

It's not ruling it out, it's doing it correctly and tailoring it to suit people who don't suit weights as much from an earlier age.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

We've made massive strides in that area anyway. We don't lag behind physically at the JWC anymore.

[Morf]

We've made massive strides in that area anyway. We don't lag behind physically at the JWC anymore.

Isn't the Dublin GAA chap with a masters in adolescent S&C in charge of it?

[Flash Gordon]

Your previous post said we need to increase player numbers, in the above you say we have the player numbers. Which is it?

Both, lol, In comparison to NZ we have similar player numbers but we are not utilising them as efficiently, we waste a massive amount of players, look at the drop off rates from under20's, simply by retaining those numbers we would see an increase, by making things more professional in the AIL you would retain and grow numbers. In the long run we need to increase player numbers for the sole purpose of chancing on a player who could be great, throw enough sh!t at a wall and all of that...

Its a fallacy though. We don't 'waste a massive amount of players'. Not everyone wants to be a professional sportsperson. Yes, there is a big drop off from u20s, and when looked at in isolation it looks bad, but the majority of that is by choice. People develop and change, have other things in their lives, other goals. And in Ireland, unlike New Zealand, other elite level sports. Some of it is down to burn out (and the mandatory S&C you suggest would only increase that) but the reality is that the things you want to do when you're sixteen and the things you want to do when you're 21 are very different.

I don't think we miss too many at elite level, they tend to get picked up in schools rugby. Similarly, while we're probably not entirely there in the non-traditional (read posh private schools) areas, we have made massive progress by investing in facilities, clubs and coaching.

There is a very big drop off in rugby after school though. For me this is for a number of reasons:

1. As Dave says - different priorities
2. I think schools rugby has become less fun and more professional. In my old school, which hasn't won the SCT for nearly 100 years the Seniors are already in pre-season. They are highly unlikely to win the cup and given that the focus of Senior rugby remains the Senior Cup, they will have worked there socks off for ultimate failure. I don't think that way of playing and that structure creates love for the game.
3. Lack of connection to the clubs - the clubs do an amazing job of coaching and bringing through kids at mini level. Kids have associations with clubs for 6 or 7 years, then they go to school and the IRFU and the schools forbid them from playing for their club. So for 6 years, they lose the connection to their clubs. When they leave school, their connection is gone. We have to find a way of reconnecting players back to their clubs - summer rugby maybe? Or perhaps a sunday low profile cup plus social events during the year.

That being said, I think all of those points are about promoting the game in general rather than the elite. The old route of AIL to province to country is a pretty much gone, as it is with soccer.

[RavenhillRaider]

Brive setting up acadamy in Fiji

French Top 14 club Brive is setting up an academy in Fiji in the hope of securing a steady stream of talent from the rugby-mad Pacific island nation.

The academy will open in February at the Ratu Navula College in Nadi, the Fiji Times reported.

It said Brive rugby director Nicolas Godignon had won permission from Fiji education authorities to establish the facility, which he described as a long-term project aimed at helping prepare young players to secure professional contracts in France.

"The academy will focus on training and guiding the players to become professional players so that they can improve their playing career," Godignon told the newspaper.

The 25 players selected for the academy will have specialised training and also take French language classes.

Brive already has five Fijian players - Benito Masilevu, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Malakai Radikadike, Venione Voretamaya and Sisaro Koyamaibole.

In the past, European clubs have been accused of damaging Fijian rugby by refusing to release their players for international fixtures.

Countries such as New Zealand and Australia have also been accused of tempting the cream of Pacific talent into their national teams with lucrative offers that could never be matched in the impoverished islands.

However, Koyamaibole said the Brive academy would benefit rugby in Fiji by developing professional players.

"We are not here to poach players but we are thinking of their future and if they go through the programme, they can also do further studies in France and follow in the footsteps of some well-known players," he said

[Keith]

I think these academies are a good thing as it gives Fijians a great opportunity to earn a career for themselves. Ok there will always be odd one poached by the national team (Noa Nakataci for example) but most of them will go on to play for Fiji if they are good enough.

Are there any in Tonga and Samoa? I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

[simonokeeffe]

Great for the players, not great for Fijian rugby IMO
not being tied to Fiji though and/or not playing for Fiji increases their commercial value in France massively (especially if they skip a world cup) so I reckon very few will play for Fiji let alone in a significant amount of games

for T14 foreigner limit do these guys count as having been in a French academy for 3 years ie not as foreigners?

[Dave Cahill]

for T14 foreigner limit do these guys count as having been in a French academy for 3 years ie not as foreigners?

Yes, and thats the whole point of the exercise.

The moment one of these guys even thinks about representing Fiji they will be booted out. Combined with Sevens, these academies are the gravestones marking the death of Fijian rugby.

[RavenhillRaider]

for T14 foreigner limit do these guys count as having been in a French academy for 3 years ie not as foreigners?

Yes, and thats the whole point of the exercise.

The moment one of these guys even thinks about representing Fiji they will be booted out. Combined with Sevens, these academies are the gravestones marking the death of Fijian rugby.

Pretty much my thoughts on it too.
Why on earth would the Fiji union condone this? Money?