Pro 12 - General Thread

[rooster]

Welsh press going for 2 conferences with 2 Irish, 2 Welsh and 1 side from other countries, at the same time they want an expanded Anglo Welsh cup to get more matches.

FFS
Any other nation thatd be posturing but the Welsh are that dumb theyd think thats feasible and a good idea
Between league, Europe, B & I, internationals, existing AWC theres enough for them to complaining about squad size, budgets, and other teams resting playrrs

Problem is they would take the league down if they thought they had a chance of a serious Anglo Welsh league.

[johng]

So. Today's the big day. This thread to get busier later.

[jezzer]

Wasn't there talk of a couple of Currie Cup sides (griquas or similar) to join the Anglo Welsh Cup?

[blockhead]

Welsh press going for 2 conferences with 2 Irish, 2 Welsh and 1 side from other countries, at the same time they want an expanded Anglo Welsh cup to get more matches.

FFS
Any other nation thatd be posturing but the Welsh are that dumb theyd think thats feasible and a good idea
Between league, Europe, B & I, internationals, existing AWC theres enough for them to complaining about squad size, budgets, and other teams resting playrrs

Problem is they would take the league down if they thought they had a chance of a serious Anglo Welsh league.

The Welsh still have their "Hands across the Severn". The English have long since moved on having got what they wanted, again.

[rooster]

FFS
Any other nation thatd be posturing but the Welsh are that dumb theyd think thats feasible and a good idea
Between league, Europe, B & I, internationals, existing AWC theres enough for them to complaining about squad size, budgets, and other teams resting playrrs

Problem is they would take the league down if they thought they had a chance of a serious Anglo Welsh league.

The Welsh still have their "Hands across the Severn". The English have long since moved on having got what they wanted, again.

Does not stop the sheep loving feckers keeping trying though, English stitch them up every time but they still go back for more at the slightest sniff of a possible deal no matter how much the odds are stacked against them

[BlueArmyOriginal]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40649652#top-link

Looks like 2 conferences. Top 2 into the semis. 3rd and 4th from each play off for the other 2 semi final places.

They've basically turned the league into the All-Ireland football qualifiers.

Also 2 irish,2 welsh,1 scot, 1 italian and 1 SA in each conference so no more derbies!

Cant say I'm overly impressed with this....

[BlueArmyOriginal]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40649652#top-link

Looks like 2 conferences. Top 2 into the semis. 3rd and 4th from each play off for the other 2 semi final places.

They've basically turned the league into the All-Ireland football qualifiers.

Also 2 irish,2 welsh,1 scot, 1 italian and 1 SA in each conference so no more derbies!

Cant say I'm overly impressed with this....

Also if you've renewed your season tkt for next year I'd prob give LR a call to yell at them in the morning!

[simonokeeffe]

Not sure if this got a mention but Zebre players havent been paid for 2 months and say preseason training hasnt started properly yet

[johng]

My guess at the structure of the comp is this.

There are 3 requirements if you have 2 conferences of 7.

1/ 22 rounds of competition + semi and final.

2/ A way of ranking teams in order 1 to 14 for Euro qualification etc.

3/ A full schedule of derby games for each country.

So....

Conferences split with half of each country's teams in each one.

Play each team in your conference home and away = 12 games

Play the other conference's teams home OR away = 7 games

Play the other team(s) from your country in the other conference once (for Wales and Ireland) or twice (for the rest) more = 2 games

That gives you a 21 game season.

BUT.

To rank all teams there would be a further round at the end where the top 6 play off (either French style or Rugby League style) and the other 8 play off for position. i.e 4th plays 4th for 7th place. 5th plays 5th for 9th place etc.

Works for me.

Agree on the 21 game regular season. With 7 spots in the European Cup, a playoff is needed between the 2 4th placed sides - with team with higher points having home advantage. In terms of the playoffs, the 2 conference winners go straight to the semi final. The one with higher points would be Top Seed and play winner of 4th/5th game (worse 2nd v better 3rd). Seed no 2 would play winner of 3rd/6th (better 2nd v worse 3rd) etc.

no more derbies!

Cant say I'm overly impressed with this....

No derbies will be lost. There will defo be at least 10 if not 11 league games at home.

[kermischocolate]

Not sure if this got a mention but Zebre players havent been paid for 2 months and say preseason training hasnt started properly yet

This is very concerning.

For all the stick the Italian Clubs get it's like for all the work the players/ background staff etc do it's totally undermined by whoever is allegedly in charge.

[BlueArmyOriginal]

My guess at the structure of the comp is this.

There are 3 requirements if you have 2 conferences of 7.

1/ 22 rounds of competition + semi and final.

2/ A way of ranking teams in order 1 to 14 for Euro qualification etc.

3/ A full schedule of derby games for each country.

So....

Conferences split with half of each country's teams in each one.

Play each team in your conference home and away = 12 games

Play the other conference's teams home OR away = 7 games

Play the other team(s) from your country in the other conference once (for Wales and Ireland) or twice (for the rest) more = 2 games

That gives you a 21 game season.

BUT.

To rank all teams there would be a further round at the end where the top 6 play off (either French style or Rugby League style) and the other 8 play off for position. i.e 4th plays 4th for 7th place. 5th plays 5th for 9th place etc.

Works for me.

Agree on the 21 game regular season. With 7 spots in the European Cup, a playoff is needed between the 2 4th placed sides - with team with higher points having home advantage. In terms of the playoffs, the 2 conference winners go straight to the semi final. The one with higher points would be Top Seed and play winner of 4th/5th game (worse 2nd v better 3rd). Seed no 2 would play winner of 3rd/6th (better 2nd v worse 3rd) etc.

no more derbies!

Cant say I'm overly impressed with this....

No derbies will be lost. There will defo be at least 10 if not 11 league games at home.

We'll see what the official announcement says but that BBC piece suggests just the conferences wont play eachother which'd mean no derbies. Are you hearing something different to what Tom English has said there?

Only way you can get enough games in this scenario is if teams in each conference play eachother 4 times meaning 12 home games but that'd get pretty tedious seeing Zebre and the Southern Kings twice instead of Munster and Glasgow.

This whole thing from what we've seen so far sounds like a hair-brained scheme. The leage has issues but tweaks were what was needed instead of a massive facelift.

[neill_m]

Check out Simon Thomas on twitter - Welsh rugby journalist. Knows his stuff.


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[johng]

Since the very first tom english article several weeks ago it has been stated that there will be a full programme of derbies. The scots will play each other 3 times

[The Doc]

Each team plays their own conference home and away (12 games) plus each of the teams in the other conference home OR away (7 games) plus reverse fixtures for derbies (for Irish and Welsh) OR a third derby game (for Italy, Scotland and SA) giving a total of 21 games.

One option anyway which maintains derbies and gives close to current number of games.

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[Xanthippe]

Since the very first tom english article several weeks ago it has been stated that there will be a full programme of derbies. The scots will play each other 3 times

How unfair is that - we get to play Munster twice and Ulster twice but Glasgow get to play Edinburgh 4 times!!!

Also, will half the teams have 11 home and 10 away games while the other half have 10 home and 11 away?

[johng]

If you think about it it is only 3 times.

Let's say Glasgow, Ulster and Leinster are in one conference.

Leinster will play Munster and Connacht once as derby games and once as part of the 7 games v the other conference.

Glasgow will play Embra twice as derby games and once as part of the 7 games v the other conference.

My solution to the 22nd game was to have all teams in a final playoff round v counterparts in the other conference.

[Xanthippe]

If you think about it it is only 3 times.

Thinking only of how results could affect your season (and leaving match quality etc out of it) if you were asked if you'd prefer to play Munster and Ulster or play Edinburgh twice which would you choose?

[rooster]

Derby matches which are just add on matches and not fully part of the league will turn into farcical meaningless friendlies

[johng]

I don't buy that. However it will be interesting to see the detail when they finally announce it. Which obviously won't be yesterday as rumoured

[kermischocolate]

If you think about it it is only 3 times.

Thinking only of how results could affect your season (and leaving match quality etc out of it) if you were asked if you'd prefer to play Munster and Ulster or play Edinburgh twice which would you choose?

We have a habit of losing to Edinburgh recently but I have less than no interest playing them 3 times a season.

And all this talk of conferences is all very well for season one, what happens in following seasons? How do you maintain all clubs getting the same number of home and away league games every two years? It's not like the 6nations where home and away is set forever more and balances out.
How do you ensure both conferences are equally competitive over time?

The whole thing just seems not very well thought out and rushed.