Pro 12 - General Thread

[neill_m]

My guess at the structure of the comp is this.

There are 3 requirements if you have 2 conferences of 7.

1/ 22 rounds of competition + semi and final.

2/ A way of ranking teams in order 1 to 14 for Euro qualification etc.

3/ A full schedule of derby games for each country.

So....

Conferences split with half of each country's teams in each one.

Play each team in your conference home and away = 12 games

Play the other conference's teams home OR away = 7 games

Play the other team(s) from your country in the other conference once (for Wales and Ireland) or twice (for the rest) more = 2 games

That gives you a 21 game season.

BUT.

To rank all teams there would be a further round at the end where the top 6 play off (either French style or Rugby League style) and the other 8 play off for position. i.e 4th plays 4th for 7th place. 5th plays 5th for 9th place etc.

Works for me.

Agree on the 21 game regular season. With 7 spots in the European Cup, a playoff is needed between the 2 4th placed sides - with team with higher points having home advantage. In terms of the playoffs, the 2 conference winners go straight to the semi final. The one with higher points would be Top Seed and play winner of 4th/5th game (worse 2nd v better 3rd). Seed no 2 would play winner of 3rd/6th (better 2nd v worse 3rd) etc.

[Peg Leg]

Do the SA teams count in the eyes of the ercc? And if so what effect does this have on the tv money that is currently split 4 ways between the p12 union members?

[johng]

Do the SA teams count in the eyes of the ercc?

Don't see how they could. Having said that I believe Israel and Australia are in the Eurovision.

[simonokeeffe]

If the saffers dont play in Europe next season theyve an unfair advantage of 6 extra rest weekends on top of 6n off for all their players. Plus heat/altitude

This season theyre back to back as alluded before

[Peg Leg]

Do the SA teams count in the eyes of the ercc?

Don't see how they could. Having said that I believe Israel and Australia are in the Eurovision.

So in calculating european qualification, does one merely exclude them from the finishing table or recalculate table positions by discounting the results against SA teams?

[Blue not red blood]

That would be an ecumenical matter

[fourthirtythree]

Do the SA teams count in the eyes of the ercc?

Don't see how they could. Having said that I believe Israel and Australia are in the Eurovision.

So in calculating european qualification, does one merely exclude them from the finishing table or recalculate table positions by discounting the results against SA teams?

I see multiple threats of court cases in the future won by.... Let me see.... Whoever the TV money wants to win in the settlement no matter the rights, wrongs, or contracts involved.

It's the way the Nigels would have wanted it. Unless it's not them. In which case karma kicks like a muthafucka but smells sweet as success.

[rooster]

Do the SA teams count in the eyes of the ercc?

Don't see how they could. Having said that I believe Israel and Australia are in the Eurovision.

Why not though as from this season it is top teams irrespective of country that qualify and the places are for members of Celtic Rugby who run our league

[blockhead]

Glasgow have sold out their season ticket allocation, (4,500), for the first time.
How are we doing?

[johng]

We've sold almost 100 in the last 3 weeks

[johng]

To pass last year's total.

[paddyor]

Think they'd have to be excluded from Europe. Otherwise you've to jetison the 2 smaller teams in the challenge cup or reorganize it and add 2 more.

[cormac]

Glasgow have sold out their season ticket allocation, (4,500), for the first time.
How are we doing?

We've sold two and a half times that number

[simonokeeffe]

Think they'd have to be excluded from Europe. Otherwise you've to jetison the 2 smaller teams in the challenge cup or reorganize it and add 2 more.

Make European Cup 24 teams again. Celtafricans get 2 extra teams, Prem and T14 one each.
The Nigels would love the Bok teams for tv$ to the point of guaranteeing their places

[kermischocolate]

Glasgow have sold out their season ticket allocation, (4,500), for the first time.
How are we doing?

We've sold two and a half times that number

Which is because you have a stadium big enough to do so. We don't.

Given a chance we could easily sell 10k tickets each week and 15k for bigger games. Ironically Glasgow simply doesn't have a stadium of that size. Which is becoming a massive problem for us.

p.s. we sold the same number last season but only after increasing capacity.

[GavinSydney]

Such a short-sighted cash-grab. Have they learned nothing from the calamity of Super Rugby?


Also, getting cosy with South African rugby is a dangerous game. Whatever they say about European competition now, you can rest assured they will change their tune soon enough.

Integrate South Africa into the European system or leave well-enough alone.

[Ruckedtobits]

Such a short-sighted cash-grab. Have they learned nothing from the calamity of Super Rugby?


Also, getting cosy with South African rugby is a dangerous game. Whatever they say about European competition now, you can rest assured they will change their tune soon enough.

Integrate South Africa into the European system or leave well-enough alone.

Different problems between Super Rugby and Pro12.

However, point taken and I hope that the new arrangement is for a specified trial period with stated KPI's to be achieved for continuation e.g.
a) minimum home gates;
b) minimum TV contract value;
c) maximum number of consequtive away games;
d) minimum level of competitveness i.e. if last in successive years, franchise must be subject of external review.

Ideally, I would also like to see introduction of a limited Draft system, e.g. to exclude players graduating from Club Academies; maximum number of non-national qualified players on pich at any time; two weekends dedicated to National, double-header, derby games, possibly New Year and Easter; elimination of Sunday kick-offs post 2.30 p.m.;

Overall, my central theme is that there should be defined measurements of success and failure and Pro12 should not be afraid to impose them rigidly, rather than let Clubs "exist" but not prosper, like the Italians. The primary element is playing success.

[rooster]

Welsh press going for 2 conferences with 2 Irish, 2 Welsh and 1 side from other countries, at the same time they want an expanded Anglo Welsh cup to get more matches.

[StrangeButBlue]

We could establish a 26 team league with Aviva Prem + Pro12 + 2 SA
Make it a three division structure of 8, 8 and 10 teams.
Div1 8 clubs clubs that made the play offs last year,
Div 2 consists of the other three EPRCC qualifiers from Pro12 + 5 next Aviva Premiership Teams
Div 3 of 5 remaining pro12, 3 AP and 2 SA teams

Promotion and relegation between the leagues each year.

This produces only 14 games in Div 1 and 2 and 18 in Div 3......

So we add crossdivision fixtures...
Div 1 teams also play 4 matches against Div 2 and 5 against Div 3
Div 2 teams play 4 vs Div 1 and 5 against Div 3
Div 3 play 4 vs Div 1 and 4 vs Div 1

This creates a 23 match season for Div 1 and 2
Div 3 teams require 26 matches, however the Challange cup groups can be devised so that 5 (or 4 if SA not involved) pairs of teams from the division can count the matches vs each other in both the league and challange cup group stages. Double counted double header solution reduces the need down to 24 games

The cross division fixtures are chosen by the home clubs to maximise derby matches - English Westcountry Teams choose to play each other, Welsh vs Welsh, Irish vs Irish

This creates a league with every home match is against a team equal in standing or chosen by the club.

[simonokeeffe]

Welsh press going for 2 conferences with 2 Irish, 2 Welsh and 1 side from other countries, at the same time they want an expanded Anglo Welsh cup to get more matches.

FFS
Any other nation thatd be posturing but the Welsh are that dumb theyd think thats feasible and a good idea
Between league, Europe, B & I, internationals, existing AWC theres enough for them to complaining about squad size, budgets, and other teams resting playrrs