Pro 12 - General Thread

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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby offshorerules » July 19th, 2017, 10:01 am

I'm going to try to go to an away game this year for the first time. Any suggestions as to what venue I should try?
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Dave Cahill » July 19th, 2017, 10:09 am

offshorerules wrote:I'm going to try to go to an away game this year for the first time. Any suggestions as to what venue I should try?


Port Elizabeth - Bring a MOWAG :lol:



Always love Edinburgh, the best city in the Pro12. If you don't mind a raucous crowd that sometimes verges on crossing the line, Rodney Parade is great craic, though Newport isn't a great town. I used to love Stradey Park, but PYS is a bit soulless. Galway is great, if you get the weather it rivals Edinburgh. Belfast has The Crown pub and the Europa Hotels all you can eat breakfast buffet (a buffet consisting almost entirely of fried food including, at last visit, three different types of fried bread)
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby wetherbydave » July 19th, 2017, 10:13 am

offshorerules wrote:I'm going to try to go to an away game this year for the first time. Any suggestions as to what venue I should try?


Go to the December Heino game, probably Exeter. Last year at Northampton was a laugh, though not so much for Northampton.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby neill_m » July 19th, 2017, 10:31 am

Galway, Parma and Treviso all excellent. The new South African sides take an away weekend to a new level - any direct flights to SA from Dublin? :wink:
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby johng » July 19th, 2017, 10:37 am

If Leinster were scheduled to play both teams in a week. You would need a minimum of 3 flights to get to either place it is a 6.5 hour drive between the 2 and a minimum of 3 flights back again.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Dexter » July 19th, 2017, 2:05 pm

johng wrote:If you think about it it is only 3 times.

Let's say Glasgow, Ulster and Leinster are in one conference.

Leinster will play Munster and Connacht once as derby games and once as part of the 7 games v the other conference.

Glasgow will play Embra twice as derby games and once as part of the 7 games v the other conference.

My solution to the 22nd game was to have all teams in a final playoff round v counterparts in the other conference.

They could still have 22 regular season games, 11 home and 11 away with a slight tweak: play 3 of the other conference teams home and away, and 4 of them either home/away. The 3 home & away fixtures to include the country derbies. So Irish teams would have 1 additional reverse fixture and Scottish teams 2 for example. The non derby fixtures could be rotated from season to season, depending on how the make-up of the conferences works or changes each season.
This would mean the sides from 2 team countries avoid playing eachother 3 times.
The conference system throws up a whole heap of questions/complications/possibilities for every season. For example, how do you avoid unbalanced conferences developing?
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby blockhead » July 19th, 2017, 2:31 pm

Statement from Celtic Rugby
Celtic Rugby can confirm that advanced & positive discussions are taking place with the South African Rugby Union regarding the introduction of 2 teams into an expanded Guinness PRO12 Championship.

Given the proximity of the 2017/18 season start, a final decision on this potential expansion will be confirmed as soon as practical.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/2017/07/19/st ... xtkHIlm.99
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby simonokeeffe » July 19th, 2017, 2:50 pm

this could get a bit last minutey

Arent there conflicting reports over SARFU funding the 2 teams? Cheetahs have a contract for 2 more years but not guaranteed theyll get any funding beyond that?
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Lar » July 19th, 2017, 6:31 pm

I get the conference idea but how on earth do they pick who gets to be in which conference.

Is it possible that Leinster could get Munster, Scarlets, Ospreys, Glasgow, Treviso and The Southern Kings as it's conference?

Is it equally possible it could be Connacht, Cardiff Blues, Dragons, Edinburgh, Zebre and the Cheetahs?

No disrespect to the second group but it would be a lot easier to top that conference than the first one?

And if they seed the sides to work out who goes into which conference then does this change every year?
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby rooster » July 19th, 2017, 7:49 pm

johng wrote:If Leinster were scheduled to play both teams in a week. You would need a minimum of 3 flights to get to either place it is a 6.5 hour drive between the 2 and a minimum of 3 flights back again.
If only one of the SA sides are in each conference though then unless you are scheduled for the single match against the teams in the other conference the following week then that won't occur, anyway a 6.5 hour drive is nothing and by the time you would check in at an airport, fly, then get luggage and back out it wouldn't be much difference time wise.
I had worked it out on the basis of flying Dublin - Dubai - Johannesburg- drive - match - drive match - drive - Port Elizabeth - Dubai - Dublin a nice wee trip around and see the country. The SA stops could be reversed depending on match order but that was based on the original idea of 14 team league and the 2 match mini tours that were discussed at provincial meetings.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby ronk » July 19th, 2017, 10:15 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:this could get a bit last minutey

Arent there conflicting reports over SARFU funding the 2 teams? Cheetahs have a contract for 2 more years but not guaranteed theyll get any funding beyond that?


That's why this is on the cards in a rush. Players have contracts and there's other funding.

There's a window to build something or they wither (or get a reprieve from Super Rugby). South Africa can't easily block the Pro12 expansion without facing lawsuits.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby rooster » July 19th, 2017, 10:53 pm

ronk wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:this could get a bit last minutey

Arent there conflicting reports over SARFU funding the 2 teams? Cheetahs have a contract for 2 more years but not guaranteed theyll get any funding beyond that?


That's why this is on the cards in a rush. Players have contracts and there's other funding.

There's a window to build something or they wither (or get a reprieve from Super Rugby). South Africa can't easily block the Pro12 expansion without facing lawsuits.
There was a report last week that there was an amicable agreement reached that kept both parties happy
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Ruckedtobits » July 19th, 2017, 11:24 pm

The longer there is a delay in announcing what is actually happening, as opposed to confirming that something may be happening, the more skeptical I become that the delay is to minimise the period of protest by STHs from all existing Clubs in Celtic League protesting at new structure.

Once games commence, the inevitable appetite to watch "our team" is likely to supercede any protests, and in Leinster's case and I presume most other Clubs, they have our money already.

However, if I don't like or actually violently disagree with what's proposed, surely I have a legal right to an immediate full return of all my SH money, as the product now offered is significantly different from what I was originally offered - Sale of Goods Act etc?

BTW, word washing around today within a prominent media organisation was that Commercial Managers of both Leinster and Munster have (or would shortly) departed their roles. Rumour continued that roles were now redundant or had been subsumed within Pro12/14 structure. Any confirmation out there of this?
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Dave Cahill » July 20th, 2017, 12:01 am

I would be stunned beyond belief if any organisation Leinster's size didn't have a marketing manager - it would be simply astonishing. Whatever about the individuals in the roles, the roles themselves are a vital component of any commercial organisation
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby rooster » July 20th, 2017, 1:05 am

Dave Cahill wrote:I would be stunned beyond belief if any organisation Leinster's size didn't have a marketing manager - it would be simply astonishing. Whatever about the individuals in the roles, the roles themselves are a vital component of any commercial organisation
Likewise I would be amazed if that was true, the League will have a commercial manager and each team also will have their team as there is a lot more than just the league when it comes to marketing, Euro cup, friendlies, corporate functions etc etc.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby faceman » July 20th, 2017, 8:24 am

The Pro12 (Pro14?) re org has the potential to be disastrous for real fans. It's about increasing the money making potential of the PRO12 organisers that's all.
The muted 2 x 7 team conferences could reduce the number of home games to only 9 (6 conference games and 3 home games against the other conference teams). My already purchased season ticket is on the promise of 11 league home games.
Also the new playoffs are proposed to be between the top 3 of each conference, so more playoff matches but they probably won't be included in the season ticket anyway (as playoffs aren't currently).

For the Italian fans, if the two Italian teams are put into different conferences as currently planned will only get one derby game per season and for one set of fans that will be an away match.
Remember the days when the league was just a league, you played every other team twice, who ever finished top was league champion. No playoffs and all home league games were part of your season ticket....
I'd be more than happy with just a PRO14 league and forget all the playoffs rubbish.

They need to get these changes announced, the season is almost upon us. Seems mad that we are purchasing season tickets for a league/conference system that hasn't even been confirmed yet.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby faceman » July 20th, 2017, 8:31 am

Agree with Ruckedtobits that they delay is probably to minimise the time for a fan rebellion and leave us with a 'fait accompli'
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby Dave Cahill » July 20th, 2017, 8:45 am

faceman wrote:The Pro12 (Pro14?) re org has the potential to be disastrous for real fans. It's about increasing the money making potential of the PRO12 organisers that's all.
The muted 2 x 7 team conferences could reduce the number of home games to only 9 (6 conference games and 3 home games against the other conference teams). My already purchased season ticket is on the promise of 11 league home games.
Also the new playoffs are proposed to be between the top 3 of each conference, so more playoff matches but they probably won't be included in the season ticket anyway (as playoffs aren't currently).

For the Italian fans, if the two Italian teams are put into different conferences as currently planned will only get one derby game per season and for one set of fans that will be an away match.
Remember the days when the league was just a league, you played every other team twice, who ever finished top was league champion. No playoffs and all home league games were part of your season ticket....
I'd be more than happy with just a PRO14 league and forget all the playoffs rubbish.

They need to get these changes announced, the season is almost upon us. Seems mad that we are purchasing season tickets for a league/conference system that hasn't even been confirmed yet.


The thing is though, that none of the arrangements you've mooted are even on the table.

Leinster will play every team in its conference home and away - thats 6 home games
Leinster will play the other two Irish teams home and away, thats a further 2 home games, bringing the total to 8
Leinster will play the remaining 5 teams in the other conference home or away on alternate years, that means at worst a further two home games bringing the total to 10 or 11 depending on the season.

Leinster arrange the fixtures so this season we have a three home match inter-conference season and you have your 11 home games that you've paid for and next season the Season Tickets will be sold on a different basis.

Of all the things that are wrong with this system, the number of games you're going to get for your Season Ticket isn't one of them.
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby faceman » July 20th, 2017, 9:34 am

Hadn't seen anything about playing the two Irish teams in the other conference home & away! Where did you see that stated?
I'd seen the opposite http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gbrenn ... l-derbies/

Problem is until they actually announce the new format we're all in the dark
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Re: Pro 12 - General Thread

Postby offshorerules » July 20th, 2017, 9:56 am

Dave Cahill wrote:I would be stunned beyond belief if any organisation Leinster's size didn't have a marketing manager - it would be simply astonishing. Whatever about the individuals in the roles, the roles themselves are a vital component of any commercial organisation


They do as far as I know.
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