Kingspan Stadium to host Guinness Pro12 final

[The Doc]

They were forced into doing this because of the changes from the Euro comp. As John said... 1 week from semi to final meant they had to pick somewhere.

Its been a topic for a while. All 12 teams were involved in the discussion and offered a chance to propose. I didn't think there was even 2 offers but maybe so. It was a unanimous decision... At least officially.

Weird thing is that none of the Welsh teams put in a bid. I would have thought they were the obvious alternative.

[TerenureJim]

Yeah surprised the WRU didn't fancy putting in Millenium stadium bid, yes I realise it's a huge stadium but the venue itself is a draw in Cardiff and it's fairly easy for most travelling fans to get to. You could have opened the lower tier or something.

[paddyor]

There\s a big difference between a European final and a Celtic League final, though.

Chances are in a European final you have 2 teams who haven't played each other that season. Or they are the top 2 teams in Europe and good for a neutral to watch.

My issue is the way they've done it- at least pick a neutral venue and don't completely nullify what teams are playing for half way through the season!

Not necessarily - 2012 Leinster Ulster, 2013 Clermont Toulon. Last years Semis were good spectacles(though some of the prievious one weren't) and the finals generally tend to be good games.

How neutral would most venues be though? You end up running away from punters just to stay neutral. If you have to rent a stadium it also pushes up the cost.

I don't like the way it's been handled though. Why announce it now without even a foreword during the season that the process was on going?

[R-Dog]

Only 2K tickets being held back for each of the finalists. It really would be quite amusing if it was a Glasgow hairsprays final

[kermischocolate]

There\s a big difference between a European final and a Celtic League final, though.

Chances are in a European final you have 2 teams who haven't played each other that season. Or they are the top 2 teams in Europe and good for a neutral to watch.

My issue is the way they've done it- at least pick a neutral venue and don't completely nullify what teams are playing for half way through the season!

Not necessarily - 2012 Leinster Ulster, 2013 Clermont Toulon. Last years Semis were good spectacles(though some of the prievious one weren't) and the finals generally tend to be good games.

How neutral would most venues be though? You end up running away from punters just to stay neutral. If you have to rent a stadium it also pushes up the cost.

I don't like the way it's been handled though. Why announce it now without even a foreword during the season that the process was on going?

That's why I had an either/ or.

Lansdowne is the obvious choice (if available).
Yes it's virtually home for the Provinces but it's a far better choice than Ravenhill. Unless an Irish team is in the final (although let's face it chances are at least one will be) it'll be a disaster.

[neiliog93]

Irish teams have been in every final, but still a pretty big risk from the organisers.

[suisse]

Leinster will make the final. I'd almost bet a pint with a few people here that it won't be Glasgow v Ospreys. But you'd be waiting a long time to pay up

More to the point, a lot of you are saying it'll be empty if it is the Ospreys v Glasgow in the final. Fair call, I'd agree. Hpw many people here would travel to Glasgow to see Leinster v Ospreys in the Final?

[ratpack]

One thing's certain now, if there's only 2000 each being held back for the finalists with maybe another 500-1000 for sponsors as soon as these tickets go on general sale Leinster / Ulster / Munster fans will buy a lot of them up. No way I want to be caught out in a ballot anyway.

[johng]

Hpw many people here would travel to Glasgow to see Leinster v Ospreys in the Final?

Most of us. Way more than would travel to see Ospreys v Glasgow in Belfast.

[Xanthippe]

One thing's certain now, if there's only 2000 each being held back for the finalists with maybe another 500-1000 for sponsors as soon as these tickets go on general sale Leinster / Ulster / Munster fans will buy a lot of them up. No way I want to be caught out in a ballot anyway.

But will there be any left to go on general sale. Ulster's 10.5k supporters will apparently be offered up to 4 tickets each in a private sale on Monday so there may be none left by Tuesday to go on general sale.

[paddyor]

One thing's certain now, if there's only 2000 each being held back for the finalists with maybe another 500-1000 for sponsors as soon as these tickets go on general sale Leinster / Ulster / Munster fans will buy a lot of them up. No way I want to be caught out in a ballot anyway.

But will there be any left to go on general sale. Ulster's 10.5k supporters will apparently be offered up to 4 tickets each in a private sale on Monday so there may be none left by Tuesday to go on general sale.

I assume that's an allocation. As in 10.5k supporters will be able to buy as many as 4 tickets from an allocation of 10K. So you could end up with a sitchiation where 2.5k supports have all the allocation. That sounds bad but if you think about it if a group of you go usually one person buys all the tickets.

[JB1973]

Not sure about moving the final away from the top placed qualifier, it does lessen the advantage of the side that has finished highest in the league.

And in all honesty the big 3 irish sides apart do any of the pro 12 teams travel in large numbers?

Say for example it was Glasgow vs ospreys in ulster I can't see more than 5000 travelling (I'd guess close to 3,500)

For example I can't see fans of any of the welsh regions travelling to Belfast to watch another welsh region play.

It's a bold move I wish them well with it but personally I think it's a gamble not worth taking at the minute

[simonokeeffe]

I cant see masses of speculative purchases, plus if Ulster dont get it a lot of people would sell them on

Cant see too many hardcore Ulster fans cheering on another province with gusto

[JB1973]

Bet the pro 12 are really hoping for an Ulster vs A N other or Leinster vs Munster final.

tbh as long as at least one of the irish sides make the final youll get a good crowd if Ulster do youll get a sell out.

If by some fluke it is ospreys vs Glasgow, there will be lot of folk looking to unload their tickets

[neill_m]

Ospreys supporters club now getting involved in the debate:

http://www.ospreyssupportersclub.co.uk/?p=744

An OSC representative spoke to Tom McCormack of Pro12 yesterday morning regarding the announcement of the Pro12 final venue. (27th January 2015)

Tenders

The first question raised was in regards to the following: Why has a final venue been arranged mid season, when there are still 9 rounds remaining, and not as in past seasons where the highest placed finalist has home advantage?

Meetings were held at the start of the season when schedules were discussed. It was agreed that 4 days turnaround would not be enough time to plan for a final. Therefore, a decision was made to announce a named venue in advance.

All members of the Pro12 were invited to tender with a Christmas period deadline to put these tender applications together. The tenders had to be submitted by 1st Jan 2015.

There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys.

In regards to the advisement that the Ospreys had not tendered for the final, we felt it was important to speak to them about this and get their views as to why no tender was submitted:

Ospreys have advised us they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put our team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage’.

The financial commitment necessary to host the final is substantial. Whilst Ospreys financial performance has improved, and are now able to make calculated gambles, they don’t consider that they are in a position to take the kind of risk required. It’s not in the best interests of the business to do so.

Any bid for a final at the Liberty would have to be made in conjunction with the Stadium Management Company and Swansea Council. Ospreys advised they will assess the success or not of this year before considering whether it is in the Ospreys interest or not for future years to make a joint bid.

Ticket Sales

Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets would be allocated for the two finalists. That’s just 22% of the tickets available, which equates to just 11% for each supporter base for the final.

It was advised that Ulster have control of sales, and that whilst tickets will go on public sale on the 3rd February, Ulster supporters are likely to be given the opportunity to purchase tickets in advance of the public sale. Pro12 would not discuss the numbers involved, but when we advised that there could be potentially in excess of 10,000 tickets sold prior to public sale plus the allocation of tickets for finalists, this would leave only 4,000 tickets for general sale. No definitive answer on this was forthcoming.

When questioned on the re-sale of tickets, we asked what guarantees would be put in place if Ulster did not make the final. Could tickets be sold back to Pro12 for re-sale at face value? Could they ensure that tickets are not sold on the open market at inflated prices? It appears that no such provision is in place at the moment. It was suggested that ‘no true rugby supporter’ would ever do this and that they would only sell on at face value. We advised that this was a very naïve outlook to take. Pro 12 advised that this was a valid point and ticket sale discussions were still ongoing even though there is only a week to public sale.

All proceeds from the final would go to all 12 Pro12 clubs, with a higher percentage given to the two finalists.

Further ahead

This years final will be reviewed in regards to the success of the event and it will then be decided what will happen in future seasons. Currently, this format is not agreed as a permanent decision.

Supporters Feedback

From the posts on Twitter and Facebook, Pro 12 can surely see that the majority of supporters are not happy with the way that this has been handled. It has been sold as this is for the good of supporters, I asked Pro12 how can this be for the good of supporters?

Supporters now have to buy a ticket if Ulster haven’t bought them all, book flights and hotel accommodation, and pay for this on the off chance that their team will be in the final. It seems the only supporters that this will benefit are those with limited travel who don’t have to pay for accommodation!

The comparison was made that supporters do this for Europe and in the Aviva. We advised that most people in Aviva do not have to fly to Twickenham as most people would travel there and back in a day. Supporters clubs also arrange coach travel as required as they’re all English teams.

In regards to the comparison to the European final, we advised that is was not a comparison that could not be made. It was pointed out that in no way could you compare The Pro12 to the RCC – the pinnacle of European rugby and the title every professional rugby team in Europe wants. Also, supporters are aware prior to the start of the season where and when this is being held.

The Event

This is apparently going to be a 3 day event with events happening on the Friday and Sunday as well for supporters to enjoy details will be disclosed at later date.

Other points

We asked why we had the final sorted but rounds 21 & 22 are still to be confirmed? They advised this is down to broadcasters. Something we found strange as the venue, date, time and broadcaster seems to have been sorted well in advance for the final with no issue.

We asked about the fixtures of games too. We asked if it could be confirmed that that all teams have agreed that they would play on Sundays; we were advised that was correct.

We then asked, if this agreement is with ALL teams, why is there not a fair allocation in that ALL 12 teams have to play on a Sunday irrespective of preference? Simply put, if you wish to be part of the Pro12 then as per the agreement you should have a fair allocation of Sunday games.

Two teams so far this season have had not had one home game on a Sunday and they do not have any scheduled in the next 7 rounds either. Out of these two teams only 1 has an away game scheduled for later in the season. That means 1 team has not a home or an away Sunday game within their fixture list this season. I am sure all would agree this is hardly a fair allocation of Sunday games as per the agreement.

There was no response forthcoming that could adequately explain this

Unfortunately due to work commitments I had to end the call but Tom invited all supporters to e-mail their questions or complaints to: tom@pro12rugby.com.

OSC will be submitting several more questions to Tom, and we will of course share the answers once received.

One last important point though; The PRO12 is a union owned/run competition. The only bids came from clubs owned by their respective unions. Does that come as a surprise? Were the bids made in the best interest of the clubs, or by their union owners in an attempt to vindicate an unpopular decision, regardless of its actual merit? Just something to think about

[rooster]

I cant see masses of speculative purchases, plus if Ulster dont get it a lot of people would sell them on

Cant see too many hardcore Ulster fans cheering on another province with gusto

Selling pretty well today but still a few thousand left for general sale tomorrow

[johng]

I have 2 for the prom

[StrangeButBlue]

Bigger events the Superbowl (>180m), Top14 Final (4.5m) and Semi Finals (3m), AP Final (2m?) and Euro Cup final (?) are all in pre-decided locations.
TV audiences in brackets to give an idea of how a league should spend the year building to a finale event that everyone is interested in.
I wouldn't be surprised by a Glasgow Ospreys Final and suspect they will travel to fill the allocation, but the key is to make every Irl / Scot / Wal / Ita rugby fan want to tune in and watch the final of the league their team is playing in on the TV no matter who makes it.

[johng]

I wouldn't be surprised by a Glasgow Ospreys Final

I'd be shocked.

They have to play each other twice, and Glasgow have a horrendous run in. I wouldn't be shocked to see Glasgow 5th. Or at least playing Ulster for a playoff place in the last round.

[StrangeButBlue]

I wouldn't be surprised by a Glasgow Ospreys Final

I'd be shocked.

They have to play each other twice, and Glasgow have a horrendous run in. I wouldn't be shocked to see Glasgow 5th. Or at least playing Ulster for a playoff place in the last round.

Not saying it's likely, and you look ready to bring in facts to the debate which I amn't prepared for. Let's just say I wouldn't be as shocked as some on the board.