Concussion

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Re: Concussion

Postby jezzer » December 7th, 2016, 1:33 pm

Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.
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Re: Concussion

Postby offshorerules » December 7th, 2016, 2:20 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
offshorerules wrote:There appears to be a bit of a backlash at the moment on various social media outlets about Northampton's dealing of the North incidents against Leicester last week with many people accusing them of changing their story. I have only just viewed the incident but it struck me that he didn't come down on his head, nor did there appear to any major whiplash involved. So maybe this is somewhat reckless for me to suggest but could North have faked injury looking to get the other player sent off? Just the whole thing reminds me of bloodgate.

His head hits the ground... whiplash not required for concussion. Stopping suddenly/instantly is enough.


Happy to accept that but I just think if he was concussed he wouldn't or perhaps shouldn't have passed the HIA.
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Re: Concussion

Postby Peg Leg » December 7th, 2016, 2:40 pm

offshorerules wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:
offshorerules wrote:There appears to be a bit of a backlash at the moment on various social media outlets about Northampton's dealing of the North incidents against Leicester last week with many people accusing them of changing their story. I have only just viewed the incident but it struck me that he didn't come down on his head, nor did there appear to any major whiplash involved. So maybe this is somewhat reckless for me to suggest but could North have faked injury looking to get the other player sent off? Just the whole thing reminds me of bloodgate.

His head hits the ground... whiplash not required for concussion. Stopping suddenly/instantly is enough.


Happy to accept that but I just think if he was concussed he wouldn't or perhaps shouldn't have passed the HIA.

Are HIA's done independently?
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Re: Concussion

Postby simonokeeffe » December 7th, 2016, 4:29 pm

No but prem rules are they/the processes are all independently reviewed to make sure protocols followed
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Concussion

Postby Peg Leg » December 7th, 2016, 9:19 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:No but prem rules are they/the processes are all independently reviewed to make sure protocols followed

Yeah and tomorrow I have an ISO audit I've know about for 2 months, all of our processes are in perfect order...... today
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Re: Concussion

Postby Oldschoolsocks » December 7th, 2016, 10:47 pm

jezzer wrote:Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.

Can't agree with that Jezzer, I don't reckon there's long enough or brown to decide to simulate a tip tackle, it looks like a natural move,ent to turn so the hall comes back on his own side.
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Re: Concussion

Postby jezzer » December 8th, 2016, 2:04 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
jezzer wrote:Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.

Can't agree with that Jezzer, I don't reckon there's long enough or brown to decide to simulate a tip tackle, it looks like a natural move,ent to turn so the hall comes back on his own side.


Hmmm. I think he dips into it intentionally. But it's very hard to be sure and the safest way to avoid getting sent for 10 is to not pick the guys legs up and inviten yourself to be pinged.
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Re: Concussion

Postby kermischocolate » December 8th, 2016, 9:49 am

jezzer wrote:Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.


Seriously??
In the space of a split second maybe his head moves so he doesn't land on it? Maybe he should never have been put in an upside down position in the first place?! It's a blatant tip-tackle. How, exactly, is Fraser Brown supposed to get out of it?!
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Re: Concussion

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 8th, 2016, 12:32 pm

jezzer wrote:Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.


Tbh I'd say the exact opposite. When you get flipped over like that you're so conscious of landing on your head/neck that you try and tuck them in so they don't take the impact. In the end I'm not sure he would have landed badly if he hadn't done that, but you don't wait and take the impact first.
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Re: Concussion

Postby simonokeeffe » December 8th, 2016, 1:38 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:No but prem rules are they/the processes are all independently reviewed to make sure protocols followed

Yeah and tomorrow I have an ISO audit I've know about for 2 months, all of our processes are in perfect order...... today


I was merely stating protocols but yeah non surprise inspections/evaluations generally not much use
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Concussion

Postby jezzer » December 8th, 2016, 4:49 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
jezzer wrote:Just watching that Earls tackle again, which is embedded in the Indo article above and I can now see what Earls was on about.

I think Fraser ducks his head and shoulder and falls to make it look like a tip tackle that it didn't have to be. Earls is asking for it a bit by lifting the guys leg, but there's more than a whiff of simulation from it when you rewatch it.


Tbh I'd say the exact opposite. When you get flipped over like that you're so conscious of landing on your head/neck that you try and tuck them in so they don't take the impact. In the end I'm not sure he would have landed badly if he hadn't done that, but you don't wait and take the impact first.


Look, it's impossible to know the intent behind what he did, but it looks avoidable as a tip tackle above the horizontal.
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Re: Concussion

Postby fourthirtythree » December 8th, 2016, 5:25 pm

Intent shouldn't form part of the on pitch decision making if at all possible, rather what actions were taken regardless of intent.

And what was done was a simple red card to give. All that's up for discussion is the length of the ban. And remorse, good record etc. come into that.

AFAIK the perpetrator is not on parole, he can say what he likes and the ban can't be raised back to what it would have been had he not spoken nicely at the hearing. It would be remiss though, I think, of the panel not to take subsequent actions into account if the defendent is up again and exhibits remorse seeking a lighter ban. But they so seldom do seem to take account of the bleeding obvious behaviour of some of their recidivists.
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Re: Concussion

Postby John23 » January 10th, 2017, 7:35 pm

Jamie Cudmore will be interviewed on OTB after 8 this evening. Not a happy chappie on the way he was treated by the medical team at ASM in relation to his concussions. Should be interesting

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Re: Concussion

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 11th, 2017, 11:16 am

Didn't hear him last night but saw his interview on BT a couple of weeks ago and I have to say I was shocked by it.
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Re: Concussion

Postby brenno » January 11th, 2017, 12:20 pm

Listened to Cudmore last night and if everything he says is true then Clermont have an awful lot to answer for - brought into a kangaroo court where Clermont GM, head coach and 2 or 3 others harangued him for besmirching the club and it's tyre company bankrollers. But then the French have history when it comes to concussion - remember that plank Noves a few years ago going into the Toulouse changing room and ordering a cleArly concussed player (Fritz?) back on to the pitch. Then after the game comes out with cr@p like. "I took loads of bands on the head when I was a player and it didn't do me any harm"

Cudmore has always been a pantomime villain but he came across very well last night, and was even quite funny about his famous run-in with POC a few years ago.
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Re: Concussion

Postby simonokeeffe » January 11th, 2017, 4:19 pm

brenno wrote:Listened to Cudmore last night and if everything he says is true then Clermont have an awful lot to answer for - brought into a kangaroo court where Clermont GM, head coach and 2 or 3 others harangued him for besmirching the club and it's tyre company bankrollers. But then the French have history when it comes to concussion - remember that plank Noves a few years ago going into the Toulouse changing room and ordering a cleArly concussed player (Fritz?) back on to the pitch. Then after the game comes out with cr@p like. "I took loads of bands on the head when I was a player and it didn't do me any harm"

Cudmore has always been a pantomime villain but he came across very well last night, and was even quite funny about his famous run-in with POC a few years ago.


Yeah think it was fritz
There was all the Shontayne Hape rigamarole too
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Concussion

Postby Munsterboy » January 13th, 2017, 6:15 am

brenno wrote:Listened to Cudmore last night and if everything he says is true then Clermont have an awful lot to answer for - brought into a kangaroo court where Clermont GM, head coach and 2 or 3 others harangued him for besmirching the club and it's tyre company bankrollers. But then the French have history when it comes to concussion - remember that plank Noves a few years ago going into the Toulouse changing room and ordering a cleArly concussed player (Fritz?) back on to the pitch. Then after the game comes out with cr@p like. "I took loads of bands on the head when I was a player and it didn't do me any harm"

Cudmore has always been a pantomime villain but he came across very well last night, and was even quite funny about his famous run-in with POC a few years ago.


French rugby is stuck in the past in some ways. Their attitude to things like gouging has been pretty slow to change too.

Had some contact with Jamie Cudmore last year when I was fundraising on behalf of a mate of mine who had played with him for Canada. He was an absolute gent.
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Re: Concussion

Postby Oldschool » February 2nd, 2017, 11:20 pm

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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Re: Concussion

Postby ronk » March 19th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Munsterboy wrote:
brenno wrote:Listened to Cudmore last night and if everything he says is true then Clermont have an awful lot to answer for - brought into a kangaroo court where Clermont GM, head coach and 2 or 3 others harangued him for besmirching the club and it's tyre company bankrollers. But then the French have history when it comes to concussion - remember that plank Noves a few years ago going into the Toulouse changing room and ordering a cleArly concussed player (Fritz?) back on to the pitch. Then after the game comes out with cr@p like. "I took loads of bands on the head when I was a player and it didn't do me any harm"

Cudmore has always been a pantomime villain but he came across very well last night, and was even quite funny about his famous run-in with POC a few years ago.


French rugby is stuck in the past in some ways. Their attitude to things like gouging has been pretty slow to change too.

Had some contact with Jamie Cudmore last year when I was fundraising on behalf of a mate of mine who had played with him for Canada. He was an absolute gent.


And when they go out of their way to pull a guy off for a HIA they get accused of cheating.
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Re: Concussion

Postby simonokeeffe » March 19th, 2017, 9:41 pm

tbf that looked dubious as he had just complained about a back injury
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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