Worlds Best No 8 - Debate

[offshorerules]

Saw this today and thought it was fairly accurate. What do others think?

http://rugbybanterpage.co.uk/rbp-player ... number-8s/

[Peg Leg]

My guess is that David Cahill wrote that article

[Dave Cahill]

My guess is that David Cahill wrote that article

Bloody Sub-Editors

[Oldschool]

Saw this today and thought it was fairly accurate. What do others think?

http://rugbybanterpage.co.uk/rbp-player ... number-8s/

No C.J. Stander, surely some mistake there.
Kieran Read and Jamie Heaslip are a good bit better than anyone else on that list.
No. 8 is Jordi Murphy's best position but I'm not sure I'd have him at 10th spot, he should be a couple of places higher at least.

[olaf the fat]

Saw this today and thought it was fairly accurate. What do others think?

http://rugbybanterpage.co.uk/rbp-player ... number-8s/

No C.J. Stander, surely some mistake there.
Kieran Read and Jamie Heaslip are a good bit better than anyone else on that list.
No. 8 is Jordi Murphy's best position but I'm not sure I'd have him at 10th spot, he should be a couple of places higher at least.

The best 8's not playing for Munster of course. If you include munster in any of these type of thing you'd have to start at their 10th choice player and work your way up.

[simonokeeffe]

Samu Manoa is a lock and Jordi Murphy isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles

[Ruckedtobits]

Samu Manoa is a lock and Jordi Murphy isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles

+1
Jordi Murphy is misplaced on this list which should include Matadigo of Fiji. Georgia's Gogodse and also Juan Smith of Toulon and S.A. Other serious contenders should list current Argentinian No 8, Senatore and possibly Victor Vito who, if Read was'nt around would have 50 caps for the AB's. Harinordique also is still a world class player in the position.

Personally, I have Read at 1, Paresse at 2, Picamoles at 3, Vermuelon at 4 with Faleteau at 5 and Jamie No 6.

Morgan is currently a better No 8 than Vunipola and probably makes my Top 10, but only just!

Fascinating to review the age at which many in this position play their best rugby and suggest that Jamie will finish RWC15 in top 3 in his position - but only if Picamoles is outside top 5 by then.

[riocard911]

Parisse deserves top spot. He was magnificent in Cardiff, intercepting and setting up Italy's first try and putting a good few Welsh tacklers on their asses. What I wouldn't give to see him do that to Sam Burgess!!!!!!!

[simonokeeffe]

less common on a rugby site but sometimes these sport sites just go through all the (recent) international players/fixtures and pull a list out of their backside and rank David denton ahead of Chris Masoe or Harryordinary

[The Doc]

That's not a debate - that's a listicle.

Waste of time

[curates_egg]

Samu Manoa is a lock and Jordi Murphy isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles

+1
Jordi Murphy is misplaced on this list which should include Matadigo of Fiji. Georgia's Gogodse and also Juan Smith of Toulon and S.A. Other serious contenders should list current Argentinian No 8, Senatore and possibly Victor Vito who, if Read was'nt around would have 50 caps for the AB's. Harinordique also is still a world class player in the position.

Personally, I have Read at 1, Paresse at 2, Picamoles at 3, Vermuelon at 4 with Faleteau at 5 and Jamie No 6.

Morgan is currently a better No 8 than Vunipola and probably makes my Top 10, but only just!

Fascinating to review the age at which many in this position play their best rugby and suggest that Jamie will finish RWC15 in top 3 in his position - but only if Picamoles is outside top 5 by then.

Are Smith and Gorgodze not principally 6s? I know they get shifted around (Gorgodze also plays lock)...but surely any list that includes them is clutching at straws. Harinordoquy is currently winding down his career: he got a one year extension at Toulouse (essentially covering for Picamoles during RWC but prolonged until the end of the season) but, while he was great in his prime, I think you could justifiably try and find 10 8s in France that are better right now. That said, he bagged a try for them last week.

[FLIP]

Parisse is a flat track bully. He loves being the big fish in a small pond in Italy and at Stade Francais. Like so many others in that list he either makes the big plays or is utterly anonymous.

It's very disappointing that even fellow Leinster fans don't value just how good Heaslip is. Tied best in the world with Read in my books, Heaslip would be first choice for any other nation in the world bar New Zealand.

[Oldschool]

Parisse is a flat track bully. He loves being the big fish in a small pond in Italy and at Stade Francais. Like so many others in that list he either makes the big plays or is utterly anonymous.

It's very disappointing that even fellow Leinster fans don't value just how good Heaslip is. Tied best in the world with Read in my books, Heaslip would be first choice for any other nation in the world bar New Zealand.

+1 And if Jamie was training and playing with the NZ squad he would be no. 1.
Jamie is right up there with the greats past and present.
You'd be hard pushed to come up with 5 orr 6 that come close.
The great Mervyn Davies comes to mind perhaps.

[simonokeeffe]

Parisse is a flat track bully. He loves being the big fish in a small pond in Italy and at Stade Francais. Like so many others in that list he either makes the big plays or is utterly anonymous.

It's very disappointing that even fellow Leinster fans don't value just how good Heaslip is. Tied best in the world with Read in my books, Heaslip would be first choice for any other nation in the world bar New Zealand.

How is Parisse a flattrack bully whens hes the outstanding player in consistently the worst 6 nations team, who lose 85% of their internationals and a Stade Francais team that only just had their first good season in a decade?

[Dave Cahill]

...a decade where he has been the dominant personality at the club?

Burban was star man last season either way.

[FLIP]

It's easy to look good amongst lesser players, against teams not giving it 100%. And he's stayed at Stade, preferring a paycheck, being a style icon and doing calendar shoots to either going back to Italy and doing his service to his country to improve their standing or moving to another club to find any true success.

[Not_Today]

Ah here, the author destroys any hope of being taken seriously by having Murphy at 10th place.

[Golf Man]

Yeah seeing Murphy on the list kind of suggested that it was ust a collection of names more than anything else - although that said the top 7/8 are probably righjt, not that its particularly hard to come up with that

Sme ridiculous comments on Parisse - yes he is a big fish in Italy in particular but so what? to have the level of performances that he has had in teams who generally are struggling to breakeven with their opponents is staggering. Put it this way - I don't think the likes of Read or Heaslip would stand out as much for Italy as Parisse does. Don't really see him a flat track bully at all (not sure how you can be one if yourteam is getting bullied all the time?)

Generally all depends what you want from an 8. For me Parisse Read and Vermuelen stand out - they don't get let down by the basics and have that little bit extra. Heaslip and Faletau next - not stand out in any facet of No.8 play but very good at all of them and both ave huge workrates. Morgan and picamoles next probably, and then Vunipola who may well be the best ball carrying wise, but acks finesse and doesn't have the tactial knowhow of the others

[paddyor]

Yeah seeing Murphy on the list kind of suggested that it was ust a collection of names more than anything else - although that said the top 7/8 are probably righjt, not that its particularly hard to come up with that

Sme ridiculous comments on Parisse - yes he is a big fish in Italy in particular but so what? to have the level of performances that he has had in teams who generally are struggling to breakeven with their opponents is staggering. Put it this way - I don't think the likes of Read or Heaslip would stand out as much for Italy as Parisse does. Don't really see him a flat track bully at all (not sure how you can be one if yourteam is getting bullied all the time?)

Generally all depends what you want from an 8. For me Parisse Read and Vermuelen stand out - they don't get let down by the basics and have that little bit extra. Heaslip and Faletau next - not stand out in any facet of No.8 play but very good at all of them and both ave huge workrates. Morgan and picamoles next probably, and then Vunipola who may well be the best ball carrying wise, but acks finesse and doesn't have the tactial knowhow of the others

That's just not true about Parisse's basics IMO. Keep a close eye on him next time he plays. Bad passes (short, high, hospital) and offloads to no one. Maybe it's because he's playing in a team that's often getting beaten and he's trying hard to make something happen.

Edit: Often blames his teamamtes for his f*ck-ups too.

[nc6000]

Most of the time his trick passes don't work or are not suitable for the situation he tries them in.