Rugby finances

[riocard911]

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

The problem with that is as professional sport evolves, international competition loses importance.

Perhaps for the moneymen, the advertisers etc. Personally I'll take a Test rugby match between any of the Tier 1 nations every time before a Boshfest ERCC final between the likes of Toulon and Sarries, thank you very much.

[Not_Today]

The provinces are owned by the IRFU, the players are employed by the IRFU, the sole purpose of the provinces is to be a feeder system for the national team. If those in charge want to move players around to get a better spread for the national team then they can do so.

If players aren't happy with what's offered to them they can do a Sexton and move abroad.

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

that's just a long winded way of saying the irfu will actively try to weaken leinster and remove the teams key depth despite leinster doing the most in terms of talent development and needing that depth during internationals. I as a Leinster fan accept that reality but doesn't mean i'm happy about it.

Leinster are being paid to develop that talent. Fwiw, your happiness has SFA to do with it.

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

The problem with that is as professional sport evolves, international competition loses importance.

Not to sponsors nor probably the general public. AFAIK, the biggest earner for the IRFU is the international test games and their TV rights.

[Dave Cahill]

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

The problem with that is as professional sport evolves, international competition loses importance.

Perhaps for the moneymen, the advertisers etc. Personally I'll take a Test rugby match between any of the Tier 1 nations every time before a Boshfest ERCC final between the likes of Toulon and Sarries, thank you very much.

Professional sport is all about the moneymen though, its right there in the name. Without them, there is no game.

If this were a soccer forum, there is no way anyone would suggest a friendly (because with the exception of each hemispheres respective championships, thats what most international rugby consists of), no matter who was involved, could be a patch on a competitive fixture. Thats currently the difference between the sports at elite level - that and the 100 or so years down the path of professionalism that soccer is ahead of us. But we're catching up fast viz...

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

The problem with that is as professional sport evolves, international competition loses importance.

Not to sponsors nor probably the general public. AFAIK, the biggest earner for the IRFU is the international test games and their TV rights.

...we already have a situation where the French have started throwing the 6 Nations under a bus - how long before the English and thus the Welsh follow? How much is a Thee Nations worth, or even a Six Nations where some of the representative teams are some way below elite level? Not very much. The International game won't fall off suddenly or because of one single thing, but it'll be bled out by a thousand cuts, the same way as it has in Soccer - and be certain that it will be bled out.

[Oldschool]

The days of professional rugby being just a sport are long gone.

The problem with that is as professional sport evolves, international competition loses importance.

Dave, this is the wrong thread to discuss this, but as you've raise the issue.
Does anyone know?
What is the 6Ns worth to each of the participant unions.
Ditto the Lions, Ditto the RWC.

[Dave Cahill]

Dave, this is the wrong thread to discuss this, but as you've raise the issue.
Does anyone know?
What is the 6Ns worth to each of the participant unions.
Ditto the Lions, Ditto the RWC.

Generally the IRFU considers itself lucky if it breaks even on the RWC - I think its going to turn a small profit on this one

The 2013 Lions tour generated a profit of over £6million to be divided up between the home Unions and £40 million for the ARU. That was under the old agreement with SANZAR which was very much in the favour of the SH unions as it was made at a time ('97) when no one was sure if the Lions were a viable concept. That agreement has now expired and the new one will be much more profitable for the B&I unions now that the Lions are established as the biggest dog in the yard in commercial terms.

Then 6 Nations generates over €20 million per year for the IRFU

[Oldschool]

Dave, this is the wrong thread to discuss this, but as you've raise the issue.
Does anyone know?
What is the 6Ns worth to each of the participant unions.
Ditto the Lions, Ditto the RWC.

Generally the IRFU considers itself lucky if it breaks even on the RWC - I think its going to turn a small profit on this one

The 2013 Lions tour generated a profit of over £6million to be divided up between the home Unions and £40 million for the ARU. That was under the old agreement with SANZAR which was very much in the favour of the SH unions as it was made at a time ('97) when no one was sure if the Lions were a viable concept. That agreement has now expired and the new one will be much more profitable for the B&I unions now that the Lions are established as the biggest dog in the yard in commercial terms.

Then 6 Nations generates over €20 million per year for the IRFU

Thanks for that. I knew the 6N was our bread winner but it dwarfs anything else. Even a rejigged Lions tours won't generate huge revenue.
At a guess a successful (Reaching the QFs) European cup generates nearly as much a Lions tour and a lot more than the RWC.

[Dave Cahill]

Thanks for that. I knew the 6N was our bread winner but it dwarfs anything else. Even a rejigged Lions tours won't generate huge revenue.
At a guess a successful (Reaching the QFs) European cup generates nearly as much a Lions tour and a lot more than the RWC.

It depends. A home quarter final in a big stadium can be a big earner alright - even an away one is a nice earner (esp if the home team moves the game to a big venue)

The new Lions agreement will generate a lot of money. TV, a new sponsorship agreement (due) a new jersey deal (again due, and its the biggest selling jersey in rugby bar none) and of course the new revenue split will put the Lions revenue on par with the Six Nations (though only once every 4 years). The Lions are absolutely huge, I don't think we see it here being so close to things, but the only team that NZ or SA care about apart from each other are the Lions.

[locho]

It depends. A home quarter final in a big stadium can be a big earner alright - even an away one is a nice earner (esp if the home team moves the game to a big venue)

The new Lions agreement will generate a lot of money. TV, a new sponsorship agreement (due) a new jersey deal (again due, and its the biggest selling jersey in rugby bar none) and of course the new revenue split will put the Lions revenue on par with the Six Nations (though only once every 4 years). The Lions are absolutely huge, I don't think we see it here being so close to things, but the only team that NZ or SA care about apart from each other are the Lions.

So Dave with all these new deals do we have a headline figure for the net worth for the new Lions Tour? You mention a figure of £46 million total earlier (40 + 6) is £70 million a realistic amount? And if so how is this anticipated to be split per Union? Home vs Touring?

Just asking as a good few people are suggesting eliminating the Lions as a way for NH to close the Gap with SH as it does nothing for us rugby wise and takes 1 full tour of the SH out of each unions calendar.

I'm guessing with the new deals and level of cash on offer the Unions will never make the call to end it.

Btw. Does this topic deserve a thread?

[Oldschool]

It depends. A home quarter final in a big stadium can be a big earner alright - even an away one is a nice earner (esp if the home team moves the game to a big venue)

The new Lions agreement will generate a lot of money. TV, a new sponsorship agreement (due) a new jersey deal (again due, and its the biggest selling jersey in rugby bar none) and of course the new revenue split will put the Lions revenue on par with the Six Nations (though only once every 4 years). The Lions are absolutely huge, I don't think we see it here being so close to things, but the only team that NZ or SA care about apart from each other are the Lions.

So Dave with all these new deals do we have a headline figure for the net worth for the new Lions Tour? You mention a figure of €46 million total earlier (40 + 6) is €70 million a realistic amount? And if so how is this anticipated to be split per Union? Home vs Touring?

Just asking as a good few people are suggesting eliminating the Lions as a way for NH to close the Gap with SH as it does nothing for us rugby wise and takes 1 full tour of the SH out of each unions calendar.

I'm guessing with the new deals and level of cash on offer the Unions will never make the call to end it.

Btw. Does this topic deserve a thread?

Beginning to think it might.
Can just see how the PRL might want to muscle in on this.
After all they'll be supplying some of the players.
Could see a need for quotas to ensure everyone gets equal money.
Something like 7 from each union with the remainder wildcards
Given the likely money involved, a review of Lion paticipation would result in an opt in.

[Peg Leg]

It depends. A home quarter final in a big stadium can be a big earner alright - even an away one is a nice earner (esp if the home team moves the game to a big venue)

The new Lions agreement will generate a lot of money. TV, a new sponsorship agreement (due) a new jersey deal (again due, and its the biggest selling jersey in rugby bar none) and of course the new revenue split will put the Lions revenue on par with the Six Nations (though only once every 4 years). The Lions are absolutely huge, I don't think we see it here being so close to things, but the only team that NZ or SA care about apart from each other are the Lions.

So Dave with all these new deals do we have a headline figure for the net worth for the new Lions Tour? You mention a figure of €46 million total earlier (40 + 6) is €70 million a realistic amount? And if so how is this anticipated to be split per Union? Home vs Touring?

Just asking as a good few people are suggesting eliminating the Lions as a way for NH to close the Gap with SH as it does nothing for us rugby wise and takes 1 full tour of the SH out of each unions calendar.

I'm guessing with the new deals and level of cash on offer the Unions will never make the call to end it.

Btw. Does this topic deserve a thread?

Id say €70m is achievable given that the £46m dave mentions equates to about €62.5m.

[locho]

It depends. A home quarter final in a big stadium can be a big earner alright - even an away one is a nice earner (esp if the home team moves the game to a big venue)

The new Lions agreement will generate a lot of money. TV, a new sponsorship agreement (due) a new jersey deal (again due, and its the biggest selling jersey in rugby bar none) and of course the new revenue split will put the Lions revenue on par with the Six Nations (though only once every 4 years). The Lions are absolutely huge, I don't think we see it here being so close to things, but the only team that NZ or SA care about apart from each other are the Lions.

So Dave with all these new deals do we have a headline figure for the net worth for the new Lions Tour? You mention a figure of £46 million total earlier (40 + 6) is £70 million a realistic amount? And if so how is this anticipated to be split per Union? Home vs Touring?

Just asking as a good few people are suggesting eliminating the Lions as a way for NH to close the Gap with SH as it does nothing for us rugby wise and takes 1 full tour of the SH out of each unions calendar.

I'm guessing with the new deals and level of cash on offer the Unions will never make the call to end it.

Btw. Does this topic deserve a thread?

Id say €70m is achievable given that the £46m dave mentions equates to about €62.5m.

Clearly i wasn't arsed checking the currency edited now!