Munster 2016-2017

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
Munsterboy
Mullet
Posts: 1599
Joined: July 27th, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Munsterboy »

leinsterforever wrote:Maybe if Erasmus used that approach with a gigantic South African pack they would have got over the gainline, and then been able to start playing. Didn't really work at all though yesterday. Saracens are just too physical in defence to try to purely overpower or out-intensify with Munster's current pack.

You'd think with Bleyendaal, Scannell and Zebo as playmakers in the backs they'd have been able to play a game that asked a few more questions.

Saracens are very good, though. If Leinster get past Clermont it'll be a massive ask to beat them in the final.
I think our biggest problem yesterday was the slowness of the ball coming back (credit to the Sarries pack and Poite's laissez-faire attitude to the breakdown for that) and the speed of their defensive line. Their defence bordered on offside half the time but if you can get away with it...

Made life pretty difficult for Williams and especially Tyler. We were simply out-muscled up front.
We're all red on the inside.
leinsterforever
Mullet
Posts: 1591
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 1:20 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by leinsterforever »

Munsterboy wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Maybe if Erasmus used that approach with a gigantic South African pack they would have got over the gainline, and then been able to start playing. Didn't really work at all though yesterday. Saracens are just too physical in defence to try to purely overpower or out-intensify with Munster's current pack.

You'd think with Bleyendaal, Scannell and Zebo as playmakers in the backs they'd have been able to play a game that asked a few more questions.

Saracens are very good, though. If Leinster get past Clermont it'll be a massive ask to beat them in the final.
I think our biggest problem yesterday was the slowness of the ball coming back (credit to the Sarries pack and Poite's laissez-faire attitude to the breakdown for that) and the speed of their defensive line. Their defence bordered on offside half the time but if you can get away with it...

Made life pretty difficult for Williams and especially Tyler. We were simply out-muscled up front.
Don't disagree but surely the speed of the ball could have been improved a bit by attacking a bit more intelligently before contact was made? I'm not saying it's easy, but Munster carriers could have used footwork a bit more before contact, and used more width in the attack. Saracens do make it very difficult, though.
sunshiner1
Mullet
Posts: 1755
Joined: October 13th, 2014, 9:07 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by sunshiner1 »

I think key players in both teams had off days in the semi's. Reminded me a lot of Brock James for Clermont a few seasons ago costing them a semi-final against us. If your top guys aren't firing on all cylinders then it is a nearly impossible challenge.

Apparently TOD, POM and Deysel were all injured in the semi against Saracens with Stander still not 100%. I wonder who Munster will sign next...
Golf Man
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2033
Joined: November 2nd, 2010, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Golf Man »

Dexter wrote:
Golf Man wrote:Sarries are essentially munster from 10 years - brutally efficient- hope Leinster go on to win it but very hard to see Sarries being beaten tbh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I'd have to disagree, Munster were Munster from 10 years ago and that was the problem. More variety was needed.
Munster were certainly not Munster from 10 years ago - game plan was similiar - but 10 years ago our pack would have dismantled any other pack - not the case at the moment against the best sides

Frustrating that we didn't try anything else - I actually don't think Tyler is hugely suited to a gameplan like that and with Murray out everyuthing needed to go perfectly for us to stay with them - unsurprisingly it didn't

They are horribly good though - can't see Clermont living with them
Munsterboy
Mullet
Posts: 1599
Joined: July 27th, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Munsterboy »

leinsterforever wrote:
Munsterboy wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Maybe if Erasmus used that approach with a gigantic South African pack they would have got over the gainline, and then been able to start playing. Didn't really work at all though yesterday. Saracens are just too physical in defence to try to purely overpower or out-intensify with Munster's current pack.

You'd think with Bleyendaal, Scannell and Zebo as playmakers in the backs they'd have been able to play a game that asked a few more questions.

Saracens are very good, though. If Leinster get past Clermont it'll be a massive ask to beat them in the final.
I think our biggest problem yesterday was the slowness of the ball coming back (credit to the Sarries pack and Poite's laissez-faire attitude to the breakdown for that) and the speed of their defensive line. Their defence bordered on offside half the time but if you can get away with it...

Made life pretty difficult for Williams and especially Tyler. We were simply out-muscled up front.
Don't disagree but surely the speed of the ball could have been improved a bit by attacking a bit more intelligently before contact was made? I'm not saying it's easy, but Munster carriers could have used footwork a bit more before contact, and used more width in the attack. Saracens do make it very difficult, though.
Yep, we needed to be a bit more evasive and Saili actually made a bit of impact with his footwork when he came on. Zebo also got more involved as a playmaker at that point but it was too little too late.

We don't currently have a backs/attack coach and it shows. Also, for all Taute's strength in defence, I think we need somebody quicker and more dangerous at 13.
We're all red on the inside.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by simonokeeffe »

Saili seems to be out of favour now
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
hugonaut
Shane Jennings
Posts: 7141
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by hugonaut »

ronk wrote:Munster from 10 years ago knew how to win a semi and had spent years learning. This is a different team and inexperience at this level showed. They were Munster from 15+ years ago.
Absolutely Ronk. This European Cup has been a great campaign for Munster [on the pitch, that is – Foley's death obviously overshadowing it]. As Erasmus said at the start:

"When you look at the matches you try to find an easy game, but then you quickly realise that Munster will probably be viewed as the easy game for the other teams in the Pool. That's a perception we have to change."

That perception has completely changed in the space of one season. It's a huge turnaround.

With regards to Munster "not having a Plan B", it's the sort of criticism that's easy to say and hard to implement. Munster have had a really successful season thus far through their 9-10-12 kicking game, which has been always effective and often excellent.

A lot of that is based around Conor Murray, but Bleyendaal and Rory Scannell have been really sharp too. Murray was missing for this one, Scannell shipped a bad knock in the last match and didn't look fully fit [personally speaking, I didn't think there was a chance he was going to play given how bad he looked coming off against Ulster] and Bleyendaal had a poor-ish game for the first time this season.

CJ Stander didn't look 100% fit and hadn't played since the quarter-final. He is and has been such a massive part of Munster's game with ball in hand over the last three seasons that he is irreplaceable.

This is Erasmus' first season in charge and he has devised a blueprint that has allowed them to be really, really successful – I think it's 23 wins and 5 losses. At this point last season, they had 14 wins and 12 losses in their record.

They do kick a lot of ball: in European competition this season, they have kicked more than their opposition in all bar one game:

vs Glasgow 19 kicks | 10 kicks
vs Leicester 37 kicks | 10 kicks
@ Leicester 20 kicks | 16 kicks
@ Racing 30 kicks | 30 kicks
@ Glasgow 24 kicks | 20 kicks
vs Racing 27 kicks | 22 kicks
vs Toulouse 28 kicks | 23 kicks
vs Saracens 37 kicks | 34 kicks

That kicking game has been a large part of their successful season thus far. This is one of the few times that it didn't work. Erasmus has built from quite a low base and has had less than a season in charge – if they were to throw away the playbook that had got them to where they were and start trying to play some super-slick wide-wide game that they don't really practise and certainly haven't mastered, the result probably would have been worse rather than better.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by simonokeeffe »

Just saw on twitter Deysel broke ribs making the try saving tackle so presumably hes out for the remainder of the season
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
ronk
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 15870
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by ronk »

simonokeeffe wrote:Just saw on twitter Deysel broke ribs making the try saving tackle so presumably hes out for the remainder of the season
Can we talk about whether they'll sign a replacement or will this bring assorted troublemakers back.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by simonokeeffe »

ronk wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Just saw on twitter Deysel broke ribs making the try saving tackle so presumably hes out for the remainder of the season
Can we talk about whether they'll sign a replacement or will this bring assorted troublemakers back.
I thought the same thing

Plenty of gametime this weekend for Oliver, JOD, DOC2 so
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
offshorerules
Seán Cronin
Posts: 3588
Joined: October 19th, 2012, 1:51 pm
Location: The Beverly Hills of South County Dublin

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by offshorerules »

ronk wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Just saw on twitter Deysel broke ribs making the try saving tackle so presumably hes out for the remainder of the season
Can we talk about whether they'll sign a replacement or will this bring assorted troublemakers back.
I'm no doctor but I broke ribs playing under 19's (a long time ago) and they didn't take to long to heal so I doubt they'll need to sign a replacement.
"POC will not be going to Toulon" - All Blacks nil » May 27th, 2015, 12:18 am
User avatar
johng
Gordon D'Arcy
Posts: 18893
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by johng »

Among the reasons given for them signing Deysel was the fact that they were still in 3 comps.

They are only in one now with between 3 and 4 games left in the season. They need 2 points from their games v Treviso and Connacht to guarantee a home semi and then they have a week off beforehand.

Hardly a need to make signings.
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Devin Toner
Posts: 25515
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Dave Cahill »

You see, this is how ridiculous Munster have been this season - no one would seriously suggest that Munster should sign a joker for the remainder of the season, but because of extraordinarily egregrious amount of foreign players they did sign no one can be certain anymore where the line between truth and satire lies
I have Bumbleflex
Golf Man
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2033
Joined: November 2nd, 2010, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Golf Man »

And off we o again - and people wonder why posters are dropping out

This thread has just become a troll thread for some Leinster fans - I'm done
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by simonokeeffe »

I think people missed the sarcasm about them getting a replacement
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
offshorerules
Seán Cronin
Posts: 3588
Joined: October 19th, 2012, 1:51 pm
Location: The Beverly Hills of South County Dublin

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by offshorerules »

I did.
"POC will not be going to Toulon" - All Blacks nil » May 27th, 2015, 12:18 am
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Devin Toner
Posts: 25515
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Dave Cahill »

I think everyone did except those who didn't want to.



One figure who seems to have escaped criticism for Munsters defeat is Erasmus. He picked the wrong team, laden with injured players, furnished them with an inadequte game plan, and couldn't replace them.
I have Bumbleflex
User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9823
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by Peg Leg »

simonokeeffe wrote:I think people missed the sarcasm about them getting a replacement
Whoosh does not do it justice.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 15008
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Dave Cahill wrote:I think everyone did except those who didn't want to.



One figure who seems to have escaped criticism for Munsters defeat is Erasmus. He picked the wrong team, laden with injured players, furnished them with an inadequte game plan, and couldn't replace them.
I don't blame him for picking the team that he did. Although Rory Scannell offered very little and Saili could have played instead, can see why he'd take the risk with CJ though.

Actually he should have had Lloyd on the bench and despite his inexperience they were crying out for someone like him in the last half an hour.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Post by simonokeeffe »

Peg Leg wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:I think people missed the sarcasm about them getting a replacement
Whoosh does not do it justice.
not enough o's on the keyboard

On Rassie: not picking Loyd on bench was a big mistake, they had to gamble on CJ, Saili is arguable either way but Taute has been preferred when both available
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
Post Reply