Munster 2016-2017

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » April 22nd, 2017, 5:24 pm

Much better start than I expected from Munster and they were unfortunate not to be ahead at HT. Rhodes off his feet and Conway pinned in (and the ball was available anyway) when he was done for not rolling away. Billy V didn't release for the penalty he won on the deck and that probably would have been points for Munster. Saracens also very lucky not to pick up a card for their infringements in the 22.

After that Saracens improved hugely and Munster were fairly awful. Whatever about the one out runners as a tactic, they didn't execute it well, no pace in those carries. And the cross field kicks were useless in the second half. They seemed to do them for the sake of it, they weren't on anymore and even when they got the ball back there was no momentum. The kicks in the first half allowed them to get to forward but the ones in the second didnt.

Saracens do play a lot of illegal stuff but they're really well organised and their defence is amazing regardless. They have an amazing ability to regroup after conceding ground. You think the attacking team has momentum and then suddenly there's a huge hit that drives them back. If we do end up in the final then I'd be in the ear to the ref about Rhodes being off his feet all the time and about the offside line. Excellent side though, and that's despite being unusually poor in the first half.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 12461
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby wixfjord » April 22nd, 2017, 5:24 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Saracens 1 thru 10 individually and collectively comprehensively outplayed their opposite number. They were actually brilliant, so well coached, so well drilled - watching the scrum that led to the penalty for 3-6, it was a thing of beauty, as one they lowered, held for a beat, then drove.


Their coaching is fantastic. McCall doesn't get enough credit on this island.
wixfjord
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 5045
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby neiliog93 » April 22nd, 2017, 5:28 pm

Flannery said it during one of the 'talk to the coaches' moments in the game: Munster and Saracens have a similar approach to the game. Saracens are just better at it right now. I still think a very good attacking team could expose Saracens, the key being 'very good'. Are we or Clermont good enough to do it?
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
neiliog93
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3776
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby wixfjord » April 22nd, 2017, 5:29 pm

Zero offloads for Munster all game, and 1 defender beaten.
wixfjord
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 5045
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby simonokeeffe » April 22nd, 2017, 5:29 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Saracens 1 thru 10 individually and collectively comprehensively outplayed their opposite number. They were actually brilliant, so well coached, so well drilled - watching the scrum that led to the penalty for 3-6, it was a thing of beauty, as one they lowered, held for a beat, then drove.


Their coaching is fantastic. McCall doesn't get enough credit on this island.


sure hes only a DOR does no coaching :wink:

neiliog93 wrote:Flannery said it during one of the 'talk to the coaches' moments in the game: Munster and Saracens have a similar approach to the game. Saracens are just better at it right now. I still think a very good attacking team could expose Saracens, the key being 'very good'. Are we or Clermont good enough to do it?


I think we are, I dont think Clermont are, side note Sarries v Clermont in Murrayfield could be a ghost town
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Dexter » April 22nd, 2017, 5:32 pm

neiliog93 wrote:Flannery said it during one of the 'talk to the coaches' moments in the game: Munster and Saracens have a similar approach to the game. Saracens are just better at it right now. I still think a very good attacking team could expose Saracens, the key being 'very good'. Are we or Clermont good enough to do it?

Playing to full potential i think yes. Whoever it is has to be at 100% though.
Dont Panic!
User avatar
Dexter
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2918
Joined: April 10th, 2010, 11:36 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Fan with smartphone » April 22nd, 2017, 5:33 pm

The carrying stats can't be good. Munster did a lot well, but attacking-wise they gambled on winning the gainline. I understand saying right, let's turn their strongest suit against them, but when it doesn't work you are playing them at the game they like. And Saracens were brilliant in contact. I don't think either Leinster or Clermont will choose to attack like that.

Kilcoyne fought very hard and I thought scrummaged well, but down that tight head side Saracens scrummaged brilliantly. They targeted O'Mahony in the air and no-one else in order to take that option away and are really smart in all aspects of their tight play. Stander didn't look fit unfortunately, which didn't help the gainline obviously. Munster can really improve over the next few years, because whilst the scoreline got away, they were competitive even for all that. But Saracens comfort when defending with 14 was damning and just showed Munster aren't quite there yet.
Fan with smartphone
Graduate
 
Posts: 523
Joined: May 18th, 2016, 7:54 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » April 22nd, 2017, 5:34 pm

neiliog93 wrote:Flannery said it during one of the 'talk to the coaches' moments in the game: Munster and Saracens have a similar approach to the game. Saracens are just better at it right now. I still think a very good attacking team could expose Saracens, the key being 'very good'. Are we or Clermont good enough to do it?


I think we have more variation in our attack and would be better at the breakdown so yes. Munster's lineout was good today though and I'm not sure ours would go so well.

Munster's backline was non existent today really. Scannell carried earlier on and I don't remember him doing a whole lot else, cant imagine he was fit.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 12461
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Ruckedtobits » April 22nd, 2017, 6:23 pm

Unfortunately, Munster so one-dimensional today that result was inevitable after 30 minutes.

Nobody can bully, or bulldoze, Sarries on the gain line.

Hopefully, Leinster wil be as solid as their defensive line here in Lyon tomorrow and with a lot more variation in attack. Having seen how well the Munster scrum survived Sarries I'm confident we can be very positive of good possession tomorrow and we have lots of options how to use it.
Ruckedtobits
Brian O'Driscoll
 
Posts: 4384
Joined: April 10th, 2011, 10:23 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby dropkick » April 22nd, 2017, 7:15 pm

I thought Munster got their tactics right. The problem for Munster is the attack it limited and has been since Penney left. Today the plan was probably to keep it tight, play in Saracens' half and hope for a few breaks. Munster were good in the first half at doing that but in the second half it was error after error after error.

I thought Bleyendaal had a shocker and Williams is fairly limited. Williams had a good first half but then came the errors.

When Munster needed to open up and play a bit they struggled. Its something they need to work on and will have Hanrahan, Farrell and Hart next season in the backline and Bill Johnston hopefully.

You'd have to admire what McCall has done. He took a long term view and things developed over a number of years.
User avatar
dropkick
Mullet
 
Posts: 1542
Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 1:27 am
Location: Cork

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Golf Man » April 22nd, 2017, 8:25 pm

Sarries are essentially munster from 10 years - brutally efficient- hope Leinster go on to win it but very hard to see Sarries being beaten tbh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Golf Man
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: November 2nd, 2010, 2:00 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Dexter » April 22nd, 2017, 11:16 pm

Golf Man wrote:Sarries are essentially munster from 10 years - brutally efficient- hope Leinster go on to win it but very hard to see Sarries being beaten tbh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I'd have to disagree, Munster were Munster from 10 years ago and that was the problem. More variety was needed.
Dont Panic!
User avatar
Dexter
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2918
Joined: April 10th, 2010, 11:36 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby ronk » April 23rd, 2017, 12:12 am

Munster from 10 years ago knew how to win a semi and had spent years learning. This is a different team and inexperience at this level showed. They were Munster from 15+ years ago.

They played well but folded under sustained pressure. Hopefully they'll learn that lesson.

Hopefully it'll be different with Leinster tomorrow because we will have guys like Sexton who's won 3 times before. Ferg and Isa on the wings will go a long way too hopefully. Don't know what the impact will be from the experienced guys who aren't playing: SOB, Heaslip, Kearney, Healy, Ross but who are still part of the squad this year.

That aren't we're not playing the defending champions.
User avatar
ronk
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9801
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Peg Leg » April 23rd, 2017, 8:20 am

Rassie staying
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
User avatar
Peg Leg
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9146
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Peg Leg » April 23rd, 2017, 9:34 am

In response to 2 of our long time posters checking out, I think the forum will be a lot less interesting. I've stopped reading a lot of media output because the message is so managed it's difficult not to get caught up in the wave of popular opinion. Likewise my opinion on all things rugby tends to be a bit leinstercentic. So the opinion of the two lads, even if they are trying a bit of a wind up, is nonetheless valid.
I'd hate for this place to go the septic route where every post elicits a slew of myopic responses in an attempt to drown out any alternative view. There's still room for a bit of craic in there but it would be a worse place if it just became a Leinster rugby circle jerk.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
User avatar
Peg Leg
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9146
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby TerenureJim » April 23rd, 2017, 10:38 am

Tyler had a shocker yesterday, his missed kicks would have kept pressure on and a key turning point. Thought Keatley came on and showed that he's not a busted flush. They missed Murray horribly and Stander was somewhat nullified/carrying a knock by the looks of it.

It's a bloody shame as on their day Munster could have taken Sarries.
User avatar
TerenureJim
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 10:09 am

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby brenno » April 23rd, 2017, 11:42 am

Saracens by miles the better team, and if we do beat Clermont today and make the final, we will have to play a completely different game than Munster did. Yesterday was a textbook example of how not to play a team like Saracens - boxkick after box kick, first receiver running into a wall of black shirts and usually going backwards, dreadful cross kicks, no offloads - and no plan b when it was clear that plan a was going nowhere. Ok maybe Munster don't have the quality in midfield particularly to play a running game, but surely there had to be some sort if backup plan.

And for this Erasmus - who has Been treated like the second coming down South - has to take a lot if the blame for the team he picked and how they played - no SH on the bench, Sweetnam left on the bench until far too late, Taute ahead of Saili, a back three whose only function was to chase box kicks. Don't get me wrong, Munster have outperformed this season and a lot of this is down to Erasmus, but just as much as Williams and Bleyendaal had nightmares yesterday, so too did Erasmus.

Hope we do turn over Clermont today and play Saracens in the final - we would be underdogs but our style of play is a much better option than what we saw in LR yesterday.
brenno
Bookworm
 
Posts: 145
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 2:34 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Oldschool » April 23rd, 2017, 12:44 pm

In simplistic terms Munster lost the game because they kicked away possession far too often and very poorly.
Williams miskicked four times in a row just prior to Saracens 1st (?) try.
Tyler wasn't great but he didn't see much of the ball ie Williams didn't pass it to him.
All Saracens had to do was wait for a few stray kicks and away they went.
Tyler's decision to attempt a dg was appalling given that Munster needed a try.
Ireland beat NZ and England playing Joe ball.
IE they owned the possession stats.
I hope Leinster bear that in mind today.
On the positive side Munster can learn a lot from this experience.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
User avatar
Oldschool
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 12123
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby dropkick » April 23rd, 2017, 1:59 pm

Good article on the talent coming out of west Cork. Its a big area that Munster is starting to produce players now. Probably starting to see the benefits of the past success in terms of growing the game.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugb ... 48285.html
User avatar
dropkick
Mullet
 
Posts: 1542
Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 1:27 am
Location: Cork

Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby leinsterforever » April 23rd, 2017, 2:55 pm

Maybe if Erasmus used that approach with a gigantic South African pack they would have got over the gainline, and then been able to start playing. Didn't really work at all though yesterday. Saracens are just too physical in defence to try to purely overpower or out-intensify with Munster's current pack.

You'd think with Bleyendaal, Scannell and Zebo as playmakers in the backs they'd have been able to play a game that asked a few more questions.

Saracens are very good, though. If Leinster get past Clermont it'll be a massive ask to beat them in the final.
leinsterforever
Mullet
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest