David Nucifora - Ongoing

[Peg Leg]

Makes sense if the irfu were running on a tight budget, which isn't the case.

All successful enterprises run on a tight budget.

[All Blacks nil]

Out of interest by how much does the Union subsidise the provinces through central contracts. Assuming an average of €350K (wild guess) per player Leinster would seem to receive the largest subsidy year on year.

Munster
Earls
Murray
Ryan
POM
Zebo
Not sure if Stander has a central contract

Leinster
Ross
Healy
Heaslip
Toner
SOB
Henshaw
Sexton
Kearney
Anymore?

Ulster
Best
Trimble
Henderson
Payne
Bowe

Jack McGrath is surely deserving of one and will probably be promoted next contract. Some hefty bills kindly met by the Union each and every season.

[offshorerules]

Can see a few being added to that as well. McGrath & Furlong for sure but also Josh and Dan will be in demand. I suppose it's one of the benefits of developing your own players.

[blockhead]

Reward for excellence=Leinster
Reward for incompetence=Munster

[All Blacks nil]

Not sure sure if Leavy or JVDF would get one based on the current criteria a where a player has to be deemed as a nailed on starter. Leavy will not and JVDF would be at best borderline. As I said Jack Mac will get one.

[All Blacks nil]

Does the fact that the IRFU pay the wages for over half of Leinster's 1st XV not constitute a handout.

What's the difference?


Cash comes out of the Unions coffers.
A subsidy is a subsidy and Leinster are subsidised to a much greater extent than either Munster or Leinster and literally infinitely more than Connacht.

[jezzer]

Seems the one big thing Nucifora has managed to achieve is stoke the interprovincial rivalry when it was all getting a bit stale for a while.

Divisive issues...

[deco]

Does the fact that the IRFU pay the wages for over half of Leinster's 1st XV not constitute a handout.

What's the difference?


Cash comes out of the Unions coffers.
A subsidy is a subsidy and Leinster are subsidised to a much greater extent than either Munster or Leinster and literally infinitely more than Connacht.

The difference is that they're only part-time players for Leinster. Leinster don't have the Racing Munstro luxury of both losing money and signing NIQ's at a whim.

[All Blacks nil]

Does the fact that the IRFU pay the wages for over half of Leinster's 1st XV not constitute a handout.

What's the difference?


Cash comes out of the Unions coffers.
A subsidy is a subsidy and Leinster are subsidised to a much greater extent than either Munster or Leinster and literally infinitely more than Connacht.

The difference is that they're only part-time players for Leinster. Leinster don't have the Racing Munstro luxury of both losing money and signing NIQ's at a whim.

And if Leinster had to (God forbid) pay their employees, how much profit would they have made last year?

[simonokeeffe]

Out of interest by how much does the Union subsidise the provinces through central contracts. Assuming an average of €350K (wild guess) per player Leinster would seem to receive the largest subsidy year on year.

Munster
Earls
Murray
Ryan
POM
Zebo 2018 provincial
Not sure if Stander has a central contract 2018 provincial

Leinster
Ross 2017 provincial
Healy
Heaslip
Toner
SOB
Henshaw
Sexton
Kearney
Anymore?

Ulster
Best
Trimble
Henderson 2018 provincial
Payne
Bowe

Jack McGrath 2019 provincial is surely deserving of one and will probably be promoted next contract. Some hefty bills kindly met by the Union each and every season.

Bolded the ones on provincial deals, have been carefully curating the list http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24234

[Peg Leg]

Does the fact that the IRFU pay the wages for over half of Leinster's 1st XV not constitute a handout.

What's the difference?


Cash comes out of the Unions coffers.
A subsidy is a subsidy and Leinster are subsidised to a much greater extent than either Munster or Leinster and literally infinitely more than Connacht.

The difference is that they're only part-time players for Leinster. Leinster don't have the Racing Munstro luxury of both losing money and signing NIQ's at a whim.

And if Leinster had to (God forbid) pay their employees, how much profit would they have made last year?

On a pay per play we'd be quids in.

[ronk]

It's no secret that Munster have been running at a loss, just like connacht. But have you any proof to show that that directly effected the finances that Ulster received?

The irfu are running at a fairly healthy profit, so I can't see why they would do that.

Indirectly. Munster affected IRFU spending, which affected Ulster and Leinster. That's an indirect but still real affect.

The figures were stated earlier but given that it's obvious that there's limited funding and that Munster's losses and unserviced debt are a cost for the IRFU then the burden of proof should lie on you to claim other than the logical interpretation.

Connacht's loss was planned and budgeted for and based on decisions taken by the Professional Game Board, not a consequence of a province overreaching.

The beal bocht bleating on here is pretty funny really. Given their catchment area, the number of players on central contracts, and the help of sugar daddies like Denis O'Brien to pay salaries, Leinster really shouldn't have any money troubles.

Then there's Ulster who, despite getting nearly 15m sterling from the NI government to help pay for the Kingspan, needed, and got, extra funding from the IRFU. I don't see you complaining about that. I wonder why?

Wouldn't beal bocht usually apply more to the person begging for help following bad investments than the one who's paying for it?

Leinster having more central contracts is to do with the considerably more strategic (to IRFU) players here. If Munster produced more elite players for Ireland they'd get more central contracts. They do fairly well given their contribution over the last few years.

[Armchair]

Thanks Armchair for telling the Turnip what actually happened and that is exactly how I heard it, was approx 500k each donation from Leinster and Ulster budget that headed south West.

No need for the Turnip comment.

Again, can you provide a link to this information? Is this just something that was heard in the pub from a friend of a friend, because bar internet forums I can not find any comments made in relation to this?

Again, given the health of the irfu finances, I find it strange that held back finances from other provinces, to carry one.
Makes sense if the irfu were running on a tight budget, which isn't the case.

There will be a link in next years IRFU report but take that it is 100% accurate, I did get KPMG wrong as some one said it was PWC

[Ruckedtobits]

Amazed to see @simonokeeffe that Henderson is only on Provincial contract. Almost equally amazed that Zebo is still on Provincial contract but more understandable given his top form in green jersey has come in last 10 matches.

Re Henderson, it is possible he has Provincial deal, with local corporate support, akin to J10, SOB &Jamie in Leinster although they also have core National contracts.

The lesson is clear, don't get injured coming up to Contract negotiations!

[simonokeeffe]

Amazed to see @simonokeeffe that Henderson is only on Provincial contract. Almost equally amazed that Zebo is still on Provincial contract but more understandable given his top form in green jersey has come in last 10 matches.

Re Henderson, it is possible he has Provincial deal, with local corporate support, akin to J10, SOB &Jamie in Leinster although they also have core National contracts.

The lesson is clear, don't get injured coming up to Contract negotiations!

part of it is Hendo and Zebo signed 3 year deals, at time we still had POC and dont think Zebo was as far up the pecking rder as he is now but they got big/long deals

[Ruckedtobits]

Amazed to see @simonokeeffe that Henderson is only on Provincial contract. Almost equally amazed that Zebo is still on Provincial contract but more understandable given his top form in green jersey has come in last 10 matches.

Re Henderson, it is possible he has Provincial deal, with local corporate support, akin to J10, SOB &Jamie in Leinster although they also have core National contracts.

The lesson is clear, don't get injured coming up to Contract negotiations!

part of it is Hendo and Zebo signed 3 year deals, at time we still had POC and dont think Zebo was as far up the pecking rder as he is now but they got big/long deals

Just read a great new piece in Demented Mole, headlined as about Toner but covering all four current Irish second-rows. Probably gave me the most rational explanation I could have found about Henderson's contractual position. When he (eventually) comes to love playing in the row, he'll deserve a National Contract.

[simonokeeffe]

Will check out, those articles always worthwhile

[ronk]

Amazed to see @simonokeeffe that Henderson is only on Provincial contract. Almost equally amazed that Zebo is still on Provincial contract but more understandable given his top form in green jersey has come in last 10 matches.

Re Henderson, it is possible he has Provincial deal, with local corporate support, akin to J10, SOB &Jamie in Leinster although they also have core National contracts.

The lesson is clear, don't get injured coming up to Contract negotiations!

part of it is Hendo and Zebo signed 3 year deals, at time we still had POC and dont think Zebo was as far up the pecking rder as he is now but they got big/long deals

Those deals happened back when the split of central contracts was becoming an interprovincial sore point at national press level.

Central contracts were cut back in numbers so they were more obviously only for strategic contracts rather than a reward for becoming a regular. They wanted to roll back the differentiating factors and blur the lines (thereby being less controversial).

They make it less obvious, especially for younger players who weren't originally on central contracts.

[simonokeeffe]

Trimbles one at the time was dodgy AF and blatant horsetrading, I remember complaining he was literally 7th choice back 3 player

while we're complaining, Munster need more jokers than DC comics yet can send 2 players on loan to Connacht, its a conspiracy I tells ya

[arsebiscuits1]

Late to the party, but apparently VDF is in negotiations for a central worth in the region of 300k