David Nucifora - 2015/2016

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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 8th, 2017, 2:11 pm

munster#1 wrote:While the witch hunt is ongoing, it is worth noting that the IRFU have bailed out Ulster and Connacht in the past, so Munster are the 3rd team to require assistance.

Rugby is a business, and the provinces are nothing more than franchises owned by the IRFU, that exist as professional teams because of the IRFU, to serve the IRFU' plans.
If the provinces fail, like with any business, it is the owners who take the hit, and the responsibility to repair the problem.


Fairly sure IRFU never bailed out Ulster or Leinster. They gave Ulster a loan to underwrite their S&C training centre in about 2008 but that Loan was repaid on schedule without default.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 8th, 2017, 2:22 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
munster#1 wrote:While the witch hunt is ongoing, it is worth noting that the IRFU have bailed out Ulster and Connacht in the past, so Munster are the 3rd team to require assistance.

Rugby is a business, and the provinces are nothing more than franchises owned by the IRFU, that exist as professional teams because of the IRFU, to serve the IRFU' plans.
If the provinces fail, like with any business, it is the owners who take the hit, and the responsibility to repair the problem.


Fairly sure IRFU never bailed out Ulster or Leinster. They gave Ulster a loan to underwrite their S&C training centre in about 2008 but that Loan was repaid on schedule without default.


Browne himself used the words "in the past we have bailed out Ulster."
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby suisse » January 8th, 2017, 3:45 pm

munster#1 wrote:
blockhead wrote:Up nearly 2200 per RDS Pro12 game on last seasons corresponding fixtures. The big loss was the Saints game, down nearly 6.5K on the fixture from last season.


Given the catchment area, Leinster rugby are doing very poor with getting bums on seats, but massive credit goes to them for turning a profit.

Massive scope for growth, giving the population within an hour of the stadium.


I wouldn't normally agree with you, but I do here. 10,000 at the Zebre game for the only professional team in a European capital with a population of nearly 2 million is fairly pitiful. You'll see the usual excuses rolled out like the timing, opposition etc. But 10,000 is a very poor figure.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby ronk » January 8th, 2017, 3:48 pm

rooster wrote:The supposed 500k each didn't come to Leinster or Ulster as it was used for Munster, not sure what happened Connacht but they probably didn't get anything either


Ouch, this is hurting us on the pitch and having a knock on effect on attendances.

I guess Munster had to be bailed out for the good of the game, but it still stings and Leinster and Ulster could have used that money to grow the game too.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby ronk » January 8th, 2017, 4:07 pm

suisse wrote:
munster#1 wrote:
blockhead wrote:Up nearly 2200 per RDS Pro12 game on last seasons corresponding fixtures. The big loss was the Saints game, down nearly 6.5K on the fixture from last season.


Given the catchment area, Leinster rugby are doing very poor with getting bums on seats, but massive credit goes to them for turning a profit.

Massive scope for growth, giving the population within an hour of the stadium.


I wouldn't normally agree with you, but I do here. 10,000 at the Zebre game for the only professional team in a European capital with a population of nearly 2 million is fairly pitiful. You'll see the usual excuses rolled out like the timing, opposition etc. But 10,000 is a very poor figure.


How do the other capitals do at the start of January?
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 8th, 2017, 5:07 pm

suisse wrote:
munster#1 wrote:
blockhead wrote:Up nearly 2200 per RDS Pro12 game on last seasons corresponding fixtures. The big loss was the Saints game, down nearly 6.5K on the fixture from last season.


Given the catchment area, Leinster rugby are doing very poor with getting bums on seats, but massive credit goes to them for turning a profit.

Massive scope for growth, giving the population within an hour of the stadium.


I wouldn't normally agree with you, but I do here. 10,000 at the Zebre game for the only professional team in a European capital with a population of nearly 2 million is fairly pitiful. You'll see the usual excuses rolled out like the timing, opposition etc. But 10,000 is a very poor figure.


Given Leinster' location, the goal would have to be to move to the Aviva on a permanent basis.

Leinster would only require a small percentage of the Dublin population to fill it.
Given the current popularity of rugby, that is not an unrealistic target.

They are definitely underachieving with attracting fans if you calculate attendance based on population within an hour of the ground, the success that Leinster have achieved, and the number of internationals on display.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Oldschoolsocks » January 8th, 2017, 5:33 pm

munster#1 wrote:
suisse wrote:
munster#1 wrote:[quote="blockhead"]Up nearly 2200 per RDS Pro12 game on last seasons corresponding fixtures. The big loss was the Saints game, down nearly 6.5K on the fixture from last season.


Given the catchment area, Leinster rugby are doing very poor with getting bums on seats, but massive credit goes to them for turning a profit.

Massive scope for growth, giving the population within an hour of the stadium.


I wouldn't normally agree with you, but I do here. 10,000 at the Zebre game for the only professional team in a European capital with a population of nearly 2 million is fairly pitiful. You'll see the usual excuses rolled out like the timing, opposition etc. But 10,000 is a very poor figure.


Given Leinster' location, the goal would have to be to move to the Aviva on a permanent basis.

Leinster would only require a small percentage of the Dublin population to fill it.
Given the current popularity of rugby, that is not an unrealistic target.

They are definitely underachieving with attracting fans if you calculate attendance based on population within an hour of the ground, the success that Leinster have achieved, and the number of internationals on display.[/quote]
Marketing staff are currently in training with Garret Fitzgerald's bandwagon building trust, if this pays off I expect us to eventually require two 70,000 seaters to accommodate the 12 county army


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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » January 8th, 2017, 7:05 pm

munster#1 wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:
munster#1 wrote:While the witch hunt is ongoing, it is worth noting that the IRFU have bailed out Ulster and Connacht in the past, so Munster are the 3rd team to require assistance.

Rugby is a business, and the provinces are nothing more than franchises owned by the IRFU, that exist as professional teams because of the IRFU, to serve the IRFU' plans.
If the provinces fail, like with any business, it is the owners who take the hit, and the responsibility to repair the problem.


Fairly sure IRFU never bailed out Ulster or Leinster. They gave Ulster a loan to underwrite their S&C training centre in about 2008 but that Loan was repaid on schedule without default.


Browne himself used the words "in the past we have bailed out Ulster."

Ulster got additional funding to try and get team going as we had very few central contract players hence we needed more standard funding, there was also a wage imbalance due to the exchange rate plus the tax refund benefits in ROI at the time which were taken into account at wage negotiations.
Any loans from IRFU were repaid in full with full commercial interest at the time, in fact it was higher interest than rates available here as I had a loan over 1.5% lower than they paid.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 8th, 2017, 7:30 pm

rooster wrote:
munster#1 wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:
Fairly sure IRFU never bailed out Ulster or Leinster. They gave Ulster a loan to underwrite their S&C training centre in about 2008 but that Loan was repaid on schedule without default.


Browne himself used the words "in the past we have bailed out Ulster."

Ulster got additional funding to try and get team going as we had very few central contract players hence we needed more standard funding, there was also a wage imbalance due to the exchange rate plus the tax refund benefits in ROI at the time which were taken into account at wage negotiations.
Any loans from IRFU were repaid in full with full commercial interest at the time, in fact it was higher interest than rates available here as I had a loan over 1.5% lower than they paid.


Good call by the IRFU, and it paid off.
just like it did with connacht, and is now doing so with Munster.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » January 8th, 2017, 10:19 pm

munster#1 wrote:
rooster wrote:
munster#1 wrote:[quote="Ruckedtobits"]

Fairly sure IRFU never bailed out Ulster or Leinster. They gave Ulster a loan to underwrite their S&C training centre in about 2008 but that Loan was repaid on schedule without default.


Browne himself used the words "in the past we have bailed out Ulster."

Ulster got additional funding to try and get team going as we had very few central contract players hence we needed more standard funding, there was also a wage imbalance due to the exchange rate plus the tax refund benefits in ROI at the time which were taken into account at wage negotiations.
Any loans from IRFU were repaid in full with full commercial interest at the time, in fact it was higher interest than rates available here as I had a loan over 1.5% lower than they paid.


Good call by the IRFU, and it paid off.
just like it did with connacht, and is now doing so with Munster.[/quote]
Munster is a different situation, inability to keep within a proper budget and repayment plan resulting in a budget cut to Leinster and Ulster with at least Ulster now going to be running at a loss this season due to decrease in expected money from D4
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 8th, 2017, 11:25 pm

It's no secret that Munster have been running at a loss, just like connacht. But have you any proof to show that that directly effected the finances that Ulster received?

The irfu are running at a fairly healthy profit, so I can't see why they would do that.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby ronk » January 9th, 2017, 2:10 am

munster#1 wrote:It's no secret that Munster have been running at a loss, just like connacht. But have you any proof to show that that directly effected the finances that Ulster received?

The irfu are running at a fairly healthy profit, so I can't see why they would do that.


Indirectly. Munster affected IRFU spending, which affected Ulster and Leinster. That's an indirect but still real affect.

The figures were stated earlier but given that it's obvious that there's limited funding and that Munster's losses and unserviced debt are a cost for the IRFU then the burden of proof should lie on you to claim other than the logical interpretation.

Connacht's loss was planned and budgeted for and based on decisions taken by the Professional Game Board, not a consequence of a province overreaching.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Munsterboy » January 9th, 2017, 9:01 am

ronk wrote:
munster#1 wrote:It's no secret that Munster have been running at a loss, just like connacht. But have you any proof to show that that directly effected the finances that Ulster received?

The irfu are running at a fairly healthy profit, so I can't see why they would do that.


Indirectly. Munster affected IRFU spending, which affected Ulster and Leinster. That's an indirect but still real affect.

The figures were stated earlier but given that it's obvious that there's limited funding and that Munster's losses and unserviced debt are a cost for the IRFU then the burden of proof should lie on you to claim other than the logical interpretation.

Connacht's loss was planned and budgeted for and based on decisions taken by the Professional Game Board, not a consequence of a province overreaching.


The beal bocht bleating on here is pretty funny really. Given their catchment area, the number of players on central contracts, and the help of sugar daddies like Denis O'Brien to pay salaries, Leinster really shouldn't have any money troubles.

Then there's Ulster who, despite getting nearly 15m sterling from the NI government to help pay for the Kingspan, needed, and got, extra funding from the IRFU. I don't see you complaining about that. I wonder why?
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Oldschoolsocks » January 9th, 2017, 9:48 am

Munsterboy wrote:
ronk wrote:
munster#1 wrote:It's no secret that Munster have been running at a loss, just like connacht. But have you any proof to show that that directly effected the finances that Ulster received?

The irfu are running at a fairly healthy profit, so I can't see why they would do that.


Indirectly. Munster affected IRFU spending, which affected Ulster and Leinster. That's an indirect but still real affect.

The figures were stated earlier but given that it's obvious that there's limited funding and that Munster's losses and unserviced debt are a cost for the IRFU then the burden of proof should lie on you to claim other than the logical interpretation.

Connacht's loss was planned and budgeted for and based on decisions taken by the Professional Game Board, not a consequence of a province overreaching.


The beal bocht bleating on here is pretty funny really. Given their catchment area, the number of players on central contracts, and the help of sugar daddies like Denis O'Brien to pay salaries, Leinster really shouldn't have any money troubles.

Then there's Ulster who, despite getting nearly 15m sterling from the NI government to help pay for the Kingspan, needed, and got, extra funding from the IRFU. I don't see you complaining about that. I wonder why?



There's this hooker you see, plays for Australia he's said he wants to come home to his native land we can't afford him with you guys shitting the bed down there and getting all of daddy's handouts


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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 9th, 2017, 9:58 am

BlueBlue wrote:Tom Grace and Philip Browne on Munster depth

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.2723985


The above link would go against your claims. The IRFU actually appear to have provided extra cash for the provinces rather than reduce.

That is the reason for the question.

Also, if the irfu did not budget for Munster to have a loss last season, then they really should sack their advisors, as it was fairly obvious after the 2 previous seasons that a loss was inevitable.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Armchair » January 9th, 2017, 10:26 am

munster#1 wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:Tom Grace and Philip Browne on Munster depth

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.2723985


The above link would go against your claims. The IRFU actually appear to have provided extra cash for the provinces rather than reduce.

That is the reason for the question.

Also, if the irfu did not budget for Munster to have a loss last season, then they really should sack their advisors, as it was fairly obvious after the 2 previous seasons that a loss was inevitable.


It is the amount of the loss that is the problem. Provinces have their own in house finance team who send in accounts to the IRFU and predictions on next season ahead, Munsters was way off and badly managed by Munster. IRFU sent down KPMG to see extent and it was worse than Munster were saying. Each province was due to share €2 million pot equally. Due to Munsters problems they now get 55% of pot and all other provinces get 15% each. All provinces are down money they were expecting due to Munsters problems simple as that
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » January 9th, 2017, 3:21 pm

Armchair wrote:
munster#1 wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:Tom Grace and Philip Browne on Munster depth

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.2723985


The above link would go against your claims. The IRFU actually appear to have provided extra cash for the provinces rather than reduce.

That is the reason for the question.

Also, if the irfu did not budget for Munster to have a loss last season, then they really should sack their advisors, as it was fairly obvious after the 2 previous seasons that a loss was inevitable.


It is the amount of the loss that is the problem. Provinces have their own in house finance team who send in accounts to the IRFU and predictions on next season ahead, Munsters was way off and badly managed by Munster. IRFU sent down KPMG to see extent and it was worse than Munster were saying. Each province was due to share €2 million pot equally. Due to Munsters problems they now get 55% of pot and all other provinces get 15% each. All provinces are down money they were expecting due to Munsters problems simple as that

Thanks Armchair for telling the Turnip what actually happened and that is exactly how I heard it, was approx 500k each donation from Leinster and Ulster budget that headed south West.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 9th, 2017, 3:37 pm

It was actually more than €500k each, but that's another story. Also, it was PwC who checked the Munster numbers and projections.

BTW, the great hidden offset is National Contracts. Go check out Tommy Bowe's National Contract and when it runs to. The same was true previously for Donnchadh Ryan's National deal. However, to be fair to DR, his performances in Green (and Red) in past 12 months have justified the 4 year deal he got originally, even though he was injured for two of those Seasons.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby munster#1 » January 9th, 2017, 3:44 pm

rooster wrote:Thanks Armchair for telling the Turnip what actually happened and that is exactly how I heard it, was approx 500k each donation from Leinster and Ulster budget that headed south West.


No need for the Turnip comment.

Again, can you provide a link to this information? Is this just something that was heard in the pub from a friend of a friend, because bar internet forums I can not find any comments made in relation to this?

Again, given the health of the irfu finances, I find it strange that held back finances from other provinces, to carry one.
Makes sense if the irfu were running on a tight budget, which isn't the case.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » January 9th, 2017, 4:26 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:It was actually more than €500k each, but that's another story. Also, it was PwC who checked the Munster numbers and projections.

BTW, the great hidden offset is National Contracts. Go check out Tommy Bowe's National Contract and when it runs to. The same was true previously for Donnchadh Ryan's National deal. However, to be fair to DR, his performances in Green (and Red) in past 12 months have justified the 4 year deal he got originally, even though he was injured for two of those Seasons.


Ryan and Trimble are the only other central deals up this summer with Heaslip re signed

a question is does Ryan get another one? probably yes. does he merit one as everyone being fit he doesnt make the 23 and theres only 15 central contracts?
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