Brexit & Rugby

[domhnallj]

The Daily Heil and S*n have gone completely mental about the decision - a joy to behold. In any case, the MP's will eventually rubber stamp the decision of the tiny majority of the population that voted. The effect will probably be a bill with many amendments, and then to the Lords for another round of scrutiny. I think the governments timeline for the March notification is in the shitter unless they win their appeal. My main worry is that there may be a snap election which will (at the moment) result in a landslide for the tories given the anonymous and undetectable Corbyn.

[simonokeeffe]

Dont think May wants an election. House of Lords seems intent on slow walking it to the point of filibuster, which is a big basket of irony

[domhnallj]

Dont think May wants an election. House of Lords seems intent on slow walking it to the point of filibuster, which is a big basket of irony

An irony not lost on many of us over here.

Many of them voted remain, they're not elected, they're there for life, they aren't even on what might be considered nodding terms with the 'man on the street'....hence the bile from the rags and various nutters like Farage.

[Leoslovechild]

I think it will pass psrliament though as too many mps will bottle doing the right thing in face of media pressure plus Labour are a dysfunctional mess

The right thing is to do what the electorate voted for.
Anything else would set a very dangerous precedent.

non binding vote but if they ran it again it would probably swing the other way

and referendums a rare thing there

And sure then if they don't like that try try again!

[kermischocolate]

You lads might need your passports to get through a hole in the border wall to come up to the Ulster match!

Although it seemed clearcut at the time, (The Brexit Vote) the UK High Court Judgement today has fairly screwed-up this process. Reading through the detail in today's Judgement in Paragraph 104, it appears to me that the UK High Court has been very critical of the decision reached by the Northern Ireland High Court last Tuesday and goes as far as to say that Court mis-interpreted the Law of the land.

Extraordinary times and it won't end here!

English translation please?

I don't understand the issue or significance of this- surely the Commons will still vote however needed to abide by "the will of the people."

[fourthirtythree]

I see. and always have seen, this as a political issue more than a legal one. As a political reality parliament cannot vote to stop the UK leaving the EU, whatever the constitution of the UK may suggest as a possibility. They can however turn down specific detailed means of leaving the EU (which is why May is trying very hard NOT to allow them to vote on any details) suggesting that the best deal has not been made. In fact they could, should, and would argue that it is their duty to do so if any leave plan is poor.

It exposes the problem with the referendum in that it was incredibly vague and meant all things to all people. It was a con, a grift by a bunch of disingenuous chancers willing to gamble with other people's lives for petty personal advantage. "Brexit" was a catchphrase, not a thing. Certainly not a plan.

[Ruckedtobits]

You lads might need your passports to get through a hole in the border wall to come up to the Ulster match!

Although it seemed clearcut at the time, (The Brexit Vote) the UK High Court Judgement today has fairly screwed-up this process. Reading through the detail in today's Judgement in Paragraph 104, it appears to me that the UK High Court has been very critical of the decision reached by the Northern Ireland High Court last Tuesday and goes as far as to say that Court mis-interpreted the Law of the land.

Extraordinary times and it won't end here!

English translation please?

I don't understand the issue or significance of this- surely the Commons will still vote however needed to abide by "the will of the people."

The wording of the Judgement (Paragraph 104) gives a complete bollocking to the N Ireland Judgement handed down two days previously and says in no uncertain terms that their Lordship in the North clearly did not take the appropriate precedents into account. Although not of the legal profession, the tenor of the three points made about the N Irish decision is downrught dismissive and cannot but cause trouble - when some politician eventually reads it in full.

[simonokeeffe]

from what Im reading May wanted to bypass parliament as if she has to keep going back and forward to parliament over what they can and cannot get or not get it hamstrings the negotiation process and makes it even harder to get a worthwhile deal

[fourthirtythree]

In other words the executive branch of government is pressing it's primacy over the others because will of the people or some hing.

Maybe they should just send their queen out on the royal yacht to negotiate, like the Torygraph wants.

[kermischocolate]

Some of this actually makes sense to me. Thanks chaps.

[Ruckedtobits]

Essentially, this Judgement explains that the Referendum was essentially a 'blunt' instrument whereas the underlying elements which give effect to the UK's membership are a range of Acts of Parliaments and International Agreements confirmed by Votes within the Houses of Parliaments.

Based on the reality that the UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, it is only the Houses of Parliament who can overturn the various pieces of legislation or Agreements. Specifically, there is no precedent for a UK Government or Cabinet, to exercise authority of this nature without Parliamentary approval.

I could go on but you would enjoy reading the Judgement more.

[TerenureJim]

Dont think May wants an election. House of Lords seems intent on slow walking it to the point of filibuster, which is a big basket of irony

An irony not lost on many of us over here.

Many of them voted remain, they're not elected, they're there for life, they aren't even on what might be considered nodding terms with the 'man on the street'....hence the bile from the rags and various nutters like Farage.

Anyone else think a House of Parliament whether upper or lower is there to serve the people and sometimes serving them means going against what they (as in the people) think they want in order to protect a decent country from turning in on itself and giving over to baser elements and edging towards Germany circa 1934.

The press headlines about judges ruling on a point of law about parliamentary sovereignty were beyond out of line considering this is in a country where someone was murdered recently for campaigning to stay in the EU in the run up to the referendum. If it was Russia or Venezuela you wouldn't be suprised to see this but the UK really needs to cop onto itself and have a discussion about whether they really want to go further down this bizarre rabbit hole....

[rooster]

Some of this actually makes sense to me. Thanks chaps.

To put it simply the entire referendum was flawed from the start as no matter what the result it had to go to vote in house of commons then be ratified by house of Lords.
The NI attempts to overturn were also flawed in that they were pushing that it was against Good Friday agreement and that blurred the real matter that it was British constitution that was being breached if May went ahead without parliamentary vote and approval, if taken to the extreme she could be guilty of treason !
Farage and his band of prices thinking it could be challenged in European Court is laughable as he wanted out of Europe but also shows he did not understand the British constitution either .
The really worrying thing is the Justice minister Liz Truss letting the government challenge this ruling and not defending the judges in doing their job correctly and not taking the press to task for some of the disgraceful comments printed in the wake of their ruling, the government is in a mess akin to a banana Republic in that the leaders do not even understand the British constitution yet they are trying to make laws etc under its auspices.

What will happen is anyone's guess now and this won't be settled easily, the 2023 RWC could well be over before it is sorted out !

[TerenureJim]

Some of this actually makes sense to me. Thanks chaps.

To put it simply the entire referendum was flawed from the start as no matter what the result it had to go to vote in house of commons then be ratified by house of Lords.
The NI attempts to overturn were also flawed in that they were pushing that it was against Good Friday agreement and that blurred the real matter that it was British constitution that was being breached if May went ahead without parliamentary vote and approval, if taken to the extreme she could be guilty of treason !
Farage and his band of prices thinking it could be challenged in European Court is laughable as he wanted out of Europe but also shows he did not understand the British constitution either .
The really worrying thing is the Justice minister Liz Truss letting the government challenge this ruling and not defending the judges in doing their job correctly and not taking the press to task for some of the disgraceful comments printed in the wake of their ruling, the government is in a mess akin to a banana Republic in that the leaders do not even understand the British constitution yet they are trying to make laws etc under its auspices.

What will happen is anyone's guess now and this won't be settled easily, the 2023 RWC could well be over before it is sorted out !

I think the UK could well be over before 2023 RWC looking at movements by the Scots there Rooster. RWC is an Irish bid and whatever about Brexit I think we as an Island will come to find a way North and South to make one hell of a tournament happen.

[simonokeeffe]

what really matter is Nigel Farrage has the exact same lower jaw as Beaker from the Muppets

[rooster]

what really matter is Nigel Farrage has the exact same lower jaw as Beaker from the Muppets

You have now insulted Beaker the Muppet by liking his lower jaw to a piece of pond life

[simonokeeffe]

do we throw in the Trumpocalypse for the collapse of western society or just the economy tanking which will have huge implications for rugby too?

[rooster]

do we throw in the Trumpocalypse for the collapse of western society or just the economy tanking which will have huge implications for rugby too?

Well bang goes the PRO12 idea of heading over there, good job the Irish team got out of Trump hotels before the election, they could have ended up as collateral damage in a protest

[simonokeeffe]

do we throw in the Trumpocalypse for the collapse of western society or just the economy tanking which will have huge implications for rugby too?

Well bang goes the PRO12 idea of heading over there, good job the Irish team got out of Trump hotels before the election, they could have ended up as collateral damage in a protest

pro12 going there was dead in the water

if Trump cuts US corporate tax rates sponsorship could well go down and the fancy seats at Landsdowne Road could start to get empty

[Hornet]

do we throw in the Trumpocalypse for the collapse of western society or just the economy tanking which will have huge implications for rugby too?

Well bang goes the PRO12 idea of heading over there, good job the Irish team got out of Trump hotels before the election, they could have ended up as collateral damage in a protest

pro12 going there was dead in the water

if Trump cuts US corporate tax rates sponsorship could well go down and the fancy seats at Landsdowne Road could start to get empty

I'm sure Jack O'Connor and his merry membership will take up the slack.