Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 18th, 2016, 8:29 am

Yeah! And you dont see Dennis O'Brien having to give us a dig out on salaries either

Overall, I think PB is just saying the provinces have to stick to their budgets. To put these things in perspective theres more talk of talks of moving 6n/changing format from various blazers but straight away Browne said 6n aint moving from Feb as thats when the tv money is and not much competition for travel plans

NH summer tours appear the most likely thing on the chopping block and them going saves us money and gives players better pre season
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Oldschool » July 18th, 2016, 10:38 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
Mauler wrote:The Used Car Salesmen have had two write downs on their loans one in 2014 [€11.7m] & one from BOI in 2016 [€10m]. Not to mention the financial assistance they received from UFEA in 2013. And as recently as last year the Chief Used Car Salesman had to abandoned his 'debt free by 2020' prediction. They of course unexpectedly did qualify for the Euro's, a competition which took two years to whittle 55 countries down to 24 or in other words 43% of all UEFA countries made it through to the Finals. But no doubt the win fall they got for losing two games and drawing another out of four will eventually help pay off their remaining €35m debt.


So, the FAI are paying 45 million for their half of the stadium and the IRFU are paying 70 million for their half of that stadium. Hmmm, can anyone hire these used car salesmen?

The FAI are still on schedule to have the debt cleared by 2020, this was reaffirmed when their accounts were released last week.

Still at least we have the Real Madrid and Real Sociedad rugby teams to look forward to, eh Philip, eh?! You wouldn't see a used car salesmen having that kind of depth of knowledge about their sport.

The Aviva will need to be rebuilt long before the 60 years deal runs out.
Any ideas on the logic behind 60 years.
The IGB site might have detoxed itself by then unless it is used for housing in the meantime.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby nc6000 » July 18th, 2016, 11:08 am

simonokeeffe wrote:Yeah! And you dont see Dennis O'Brien having to give us a dig out on salaries either


You mean apart from Sexton? The only high profile player to have left Ireland in years to have returned and neither Leinster or the IRFU could pay the "market rate" without a dig out.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Flash Gordon » July 18th, 2016, 11:46 am

Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Armchair » July 18th, 2016, 2:40 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.


In fairness you can't expect the IRFU to come up with ideas :D They do the usual say its not working blame everyone else and wait till some one else has a solution and then say that is what they have been working so hard at to achieve!
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 18th, 2016, 4:12 pm

nc6000 wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Yeah! And you dont see Dennis O'Brien having to give us a dig out on salaries either


You mean apart from Sexton? The only high profile player to have left Ireland in years to have returned and neither Leinster or the IRFU could pay the "market rate" without a dig out.


You might want to get your sarcasm detector serviced
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Flash Gordon » July 18th, 2016, 4:53 pm

Armchair wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.


In fairness you can't expect the IRFU to come up with ideas :D They do the usual say its not working blame everyone else and wait till some one else has a solution and then say that is what they have been working so hard at to achieve!


They've had lots of good ideas like disbanding Connacht.........oh wait.....
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 18th, 2016, 4:56 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
Armchair wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.


In fairness you can't expect the IRFU to come up with ideas :D They do the usual say its not working blame everyone else and wait till some one else has a solution and then say that is what they have been working so hard at to achieve!


They've had lots of good ideas like disbanding Connacht.........oh wait.....


they got giving a coach a new deal just before a world cup right at the third time of asking :D
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Oldschool » July 18th, 2016, 6:33 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
they got giving a coach a new deal just before a world cup right at the third time of asking :D

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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby bonzo » July 18th, 2016, 9:44 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.

Don't forget turning the pro 12 - well, most of it - into the Celtic conference of super rugby...

If the alternative is a pro 12 franchise in the US then it actually doesn't look that crazy :twisted:
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Flash Gordon » July 19th, 2016, 9:34 am

bonzo wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:Think the point he's raising is relevant. The reality of the situation is that none of the provinces are set up to be even remotely competitive financially vs the French and English. Rather than issuing threats it would be better if he came up with ideas because we don't have the kind of player base that can compensate for the attritional issues that will happen if Irish players play in the Top 14 or Premiership. As it stands, there is no financial model for the Pro 12 that can work given the size of Celtic market. There are only 3 ways to go:

1. Generate enough revenue via the national team to compensate the provinces *which he's suggesting isn't an option
2. Find benefactors
3. Work towards the creation of a new competition that has a bigger market - a US franchise is unlikely in my opinion so you're basically down to finding a way to expand a European competition or join another league e.g. the Premiership.

Don't forget turning the pro 12 - well, most of it - into the Celtic conference of super rugby...

If the alternative is a pro 12 franchise in the US then it actually doesn't look that crazy :twisted:


Not a bad idea! Though the question would be whether people would watch Celtic conference games in the UK or France.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby jezzer » July 19th, 2016, 10:28 am

We can only get out of this rut by seeing Wales, Ital and Scotland up their games. There's 15m population (and above average interest in rugby) in the 3 Celtic naitons. There's an additional 60m market in Italy to tap into if they could just get their sh!t in order (with below average interest in rugby). There's a viable market in the Pro 12, but they're just making a haymes of developing it.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Flash Gordon » July 20th, 2016, 1:29 pm

jezzer wrote:We can only get out of this rut by seeing Wales, Ital and Scotland up their games. There's 15m population (and above average interest in rugby) in the 3 Celtic naitons. There's an additional 60m market in Italy to tap into if they could just get their sh!t in order (with below average interest in rugby). There's a viable market in the Pro 12, but they're just making a haymes of developing it.


Don't think it's just them though Jezzer. Looking at it objectively, Irish players often appear to think about the Pro 12 as a second stream competition - and worse still, say that! Similarly, over the years we have consistently fielded weaker teams because the IRFU places severe restrictions on selections. Coupled with that we have crappy TV deals and the sale of sponsorship rights has been a bit of a mess.

I agree with you on the other Celtic nations and Italy, in the Champions Cup, their performance has been shocking over the years, particularly the case with Wales who's national team have been more successful than France or England since 2008.

The other thought I had was that maybe you compete with other markets by building/buying franchises there - London Irish/Welsh/Scottish; Brittany, Cornish Pirates.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 20th, 2016, 2:09 pm

Best chance of English teams is abolition of Premiership relegation

Celtic conference system with reduced games in theory would make Welsh etc more competitive in Europe as less games means less attrition on players
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » July 21st, 2016, 11:50 am

simonokeeffe wrote:Best chance of English teams is abolition of Premiership relegation

Celtic conference system with reduced games in theory would make Welsh etc more competitive in Europe as less games means less attrition on players


I've mentioned that before too, although I know most of the Premiership owners want to keep their league together.

I don't actually like the idea of it, but I think the IRFU have to push for it for the sake of the game here. I also have a horrible horrible feeling that if we wanted it to happen then it would be the likes of Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig that we'd have to go begging to.

I was just looking at the Leinster squad earlier and quite frankly our second string backline is shite for a team of our caliber in a league of that size. Don't mean to be harsh on those players but I mean in terms of trying to grow the brand we shouldn't be seeing such a "weak" team for so many games.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 21st, 2016, 12:46 pm

Be positive, we'll have the highest year round availability of our backline for years

McFadden wont make 32 man squads, RK wont either IMO if Zebo & Payne are fit, DK wont make matchdays, Morris Byrne Dardis wont be in any squads, we have our 2 NIQ backs

Ringrose is the interesting/big one, we may have McFadden and/or Kirchner in midfield a bit
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Peg Leg » July 21st, 2016, 1:20 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Be positive...... we may have McFadden and/or Kirchner in midfield a bit

Ughhhhh
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 21st, 2016, 2:01 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Be positive...... we may have McFadden and/or Kirchner in midfield a bit

Ughhhhh


Hey dont take me out of context with your selective editing
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby Dave Cahill » July 21st, 2016, 2:08 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Be positive, we'll have the highest year round availability of our backline for years

McFadden wont make 32 man squads, RK wont either IMO if Zebo & Payne are fit, DK wont make matchdays, Morris Byrne Dardis wont be in any squads, we have our 2 NIQ backs

Ringrose is the interesting/big one, we may have McFadden and/or Kirchner in midfield a bit



In the 5 years Joe has been here, has he ever, once, dropped a fit Rob Kearney, has he ever once failed to pick a fit Dave Kearney? Even this summer with no visible form and little proof of fitness Rob was picked to go to South Africa (at no little cost to Leinster btw) as was Dave.
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Re: Philip Browne issues warning to the provinces

Postby simonokeeffe » July 21st, 2016, 2:22 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Be positive, we'll have the highest year round availability of our backline for years

McFadden wont make 32 man squads, RK wont either IMO if Zebo & Payne are fit, DK wont make matchdays, Morris Byrne Dardis wont be in any squads, we have our 2 NIQ backs

Ringrose is the interesting/big one, we may have McFadden and/or Kirchner in midfield a bit



In the 5 years Joe has been here, has he ever, once, dropped a fit Rob Kearney, has he ever once failed to pick a fit Dave Kearney? Even this summer with no visible form and little proof of fitness Rob was picked to go to South Africa (at no little cost to Leinster btw) as was Dave.


No on RK but I think others shone and shone brightly in their abscence. Zebo is now Munsters fullback, where Payne plays for Ulster will be telling. DK has routinely been behind several others

Joe's Ireland have had a eureka moment with attacking fullbacks and nearly everyone is now playing a wide wide game. Plus we (know we) dont have the front 5 to play narrow
no more

Plus side is Leinster have spare/better options at 15 and if RK starts for Ireland by choice then chances are Ringrose is available more which would be damn good news for Leinster
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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