Inter-County Rugby

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Inter-County Rugby

Postby leinsterforever » August 1st, 2016, 2:28 am

Would rugby competition between counties, similar to provincial competition in NZ, work at all? It would be something that would grow the game but would it be economically viable, and would there be enough facilities and players?

Just thought I'd throw it out there
leinsterforever
Graduate
 
Posts: 604
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 1st, 2016, 10:37 am

leinsterforever wrote:Would rugby competition between counties, similar to provincial competition in NZ, work at all? It would be something that would grow the game but would it be economically viable, and would there be enough facilities and players?

Just thought I'd throw it out there
At what level would you play it at considering there is only senior clubs in 15 counties, I think and there is only 1 or 2 senior clubs in many of those counties.
There has or had been an inter county cup in Leinster but its played at j2 level.
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby TerenureJim » August 1st, 2016, 11:25 am

Difficult enough to keep the club and provincial game going without adding this new level
User avatar
TerenureJim
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 4911
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 10:09 am

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby Fireworks » August 2nd, 2016, 8:56 am

That would be a wonderful development for Irish rugby. It would tap in to the GAA inter-county buzz and spread the game into areas of the country that are not covered by the clubs at the moment. I would put teams from this league in to the B&I and get the provinces to use it as both a source of players and a development ground for academy guys.

That is the positive. The negative is that to do it properly would probably see the end of clubs. You could not run this and a senior club league. The only future for the clubs would be as fully amateur clubs playing their own league at a lower level. There may be positives in that but it would be difficult to sell to the clubs.

Facilities could be an issue in some counties but I would think that would be an issue that could be dealt with.

A good idea that might not get implemented due to the opposition of the current clubs. Implementing at anything but senior level would be a waste in my opinion.
User avatar
Fireworks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: October 7th, 2010, 5:39 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 2nd, 2016, 1:47 pm

Fireworks wrote:That would be a wonderful development for Irish rugby. It would tap in to the GAA inter-county buzz and spread the game into areas of the country that are not covered by the clubs at the moment. I would put teams from this league in to the B&I and get the provinces to use it as both a source of players and a development ground for academy guys.

That is the positive. The negative is that to do it properly would probably see the end of clubs. You could not run this and a senior club league. The only future for the clubs would be as fully amateur clubs playing their own league at a lower level. There may be positives in that but it would be difficult to sell to the clubs.

Facilities could be an issue in some counties but I would think that would be an issue that could be dealt with.

A good idea that might not get implemented due to the opposition of the current clubs. Implementing at anything but senior level would be a waste in my opinion.
Would it tap into gaa buzz though. How would it spread the game into areas not covered by clubs? Which areas in particular are you referring to. Why would the provinces want these sides in B&I ahead of their A teams.
How would you sort out facilities in some of the counties?
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby munster#1 » August 2nd, 2016, 6:30 pm

I have often thought that the irfu are missing a trick by not having a couple of AIL teams in the challenge cup each year.

Imo there should be a county championship or league between counties with more than 2 AIL division 1a, 1b or 2b level teams, with the top 2 teams gaining entry into the challenge cup.

Players must not be contracted to any province obviously.

This would give players who may have been missed by the academy system a chance to play at a higher level, and fill a the gap between AIL and the provinces.
User avatar
munster#1
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3927
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 2nd, 2016, 7:00 pm

munster#1 wrote:I have often thought that the irfu are missing a trick by not having a couple of AIL teams in the challenge cup each year.

Imo there should be a county championship or league between counties with more than 2 AIL division 1a, 1b or 2b level teams, with the top 2 teams gaining entry into the challenge cup.

Players must not be contracted to any province obviously.

This would give players who may have been missed by the academy system a chance to play at a higher level, and fill a the gap between AIL and the provinces.
Really?
AIL sides are in no way good enough for the challenge cup
When would you play this county championship? The only counties with more than 2 1A/B/2A sides are Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Tipperary, Kildare, Down, Antrim.
Having uncontracted club players playing challenge cup isn't feasible.
You use the A system and British and Irish Cup level in a better fashion rather than try aid a needless extra layer.
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby Oldschoolsocks » August 2nd, 2016, 9:10 pm

Real question is, how could we do this without David Corkery losing his sh1t
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby munster#1 » August 2nd, 2016, 9:55 pm

ormond lad wrote:
munster#1 wrote:I have often thought that the irfu are missing a trick by not having a couple of AIL teams in the challenge cup each year.

Imo there should be a county championship or league between counties with more than 2 AIL division 1a, 1b or 2b level teams, with the top 2 teams gaining entry into the challenge cup.

Players must not be contracted to any province obviously.

This would give players who may have been missed by the academy system a chance to play at a higher level, and fill a the gap between AIL and the provinces.
Really?
AIL sides are in no way good enough for the challenge cup
When would you play this county championship? The only counties with more than 2 1A/B/2A sides are Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Tipperary, Kildare, Down, Antrim.
Having uncontracted club players playing challenge cup isn't feasible.
You use the A system and British and Irish Cup level in a better fashion rather than try aid a needless extra layer.


The low number of counties lends itself to having less matches required, which means that clubs would lose there players for less time than a full 32 county system.

Its not that long ago that people said that you can't expect AIL players to compete in the hec.
I don't expect these teams to be massively competitive as any good players will be fed into the provinces, which would be their main purpose.

If you believe that the gap between AIL standard and pro 12 / hec standard is not big enough to warrant an additional layer, then I'm not sure how many AIL matches you have attended lately.

In Ireland we have a system where if you haven't made it into one of the 4 acadamies by 19 years old, then you are very unlikely to play professional rugby. Sure a small number of lads have bucked the trend and developed in the AIL, or have been lucky enough to be picked up by clubs outside of Ireland, but how many lads are lost? How many James Caughlans have given up on pro rugby after not making it in their late teens / early 20s?
User avatar
munster#1
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3927
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 2nd, 2016, 10:54 pm

munster#1 wrote:
ormond lad wrote:
munster#1 wrote:I have often thought that the irfu are missing a trick by not having a couple of AIL teams in the challenge cup each year.

Imo there should be a county championship or league between counties with more than 2 AIL division 1a, 1b or 2b level teams, with the top 2 teams gaining entry into the challenge cup.

Players must not be contracted to any province obviously.

This would give players who may have been missed by the academy system a chance to play at a higher level, and fill a the gap between AIL and the provinces.
Really?
AIL sides are in no way good enough for the challenge cup
When would you play this county championship? The only counties with more than 2 1A/B/2A sides are Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Tipperary, Kildare, Down, Antrim.
Having uncontracted club players playing challenge cup isn't feasible.
You use the A system and British and Irish Cup level in a better fashion rather than try aid a needless extra layer.


The low number of counties lends itself to having less matches required, which means that clubs would lose there players for less time than a full 32 county system.

Its not that long ago that people said that you can't expect AIL players to compete in the hec.
I don't expect these teams to be massively competitive as any good players will be fed into the provinces, which would be their main purpose.

If you believe that the gap between AIL standard and pro 12 / hec standard is not big enough to warrant an additional layer, then I'm not sure how many AIL matches you have attended lately.

In Ireland we have a system where if you haven't made it into one of the 4 acadamies by 19 years old, then you are very unlikely to play professional rugby. Sure a small number of lads have bucked the trend and developed in the AIL, or have been lucky enough to be picked up by clubs outside of Ireland, but how many lads are lost? How many James Caughlans have given up on pro rugby after not making it in their late teens / early 20s?
I could hazard a very good guess that I attend more AIL games a season than most posters here. Adding a county layer isn't needed if it means taking from the provincial A sides/set up. You use that better.
Talking about AIL and competing in Heineken Cup. That was quite a while ago now. Yes there is plenty who had potential to play pro who were lost to the pro game at 19/20/21 but AIL sides in the challenge cup? Don't be daft. Theyre nowhere near that level.
Yes there has been a lot lost but having AIL sides in the challenge cup is delusional stuff.
Yes you are quite unlikely to make the pro game if not within "the system" by 19 but that's the case in most sports.
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby munster#1 » August 3rd, 2016, 2:30 pm

Look I know all this is completely hypothetical as the funding is not there to carry any additional teams, or introduce any additional cups.

Imo the AIL is dead unfortunately, I am a regular at matches and the standard of rugby and the numbers in attendance is nowhere near where it once was.
To do nothing is absolutely crazy, and imo your opinion is very short sighted.

Sure a Dublin, limerick or cork team are unlikely to succeed in winning the challenge cup, but a few years of these teams competing against eachother, and better opposition from other countries would without doubt improve players abilities, which in turn will improve the standard of the AIL.

Again I think you have missed the point. As things stand any late developer or overlooked players are very unlikely to make the step up to provincial rugby. In Ireland we only have 4 professional teams with very limited space in their academies so players will get missed.

We need to put something in place to capture and develope these players. Sure my idea might not be perfect, or even any good, but your idea of doing nothing is extremely small minded, and counter productive.
User avatar
munster#1
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3927
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 3rd, 2016, 2:52 pm

munster#1 wrote:Look I know all this is completely hypothetical as the funding is not there to carry any additional teams, or introduce any additional cups.

Imo the AIL is dead unfortunately, I am a regular at matches and the standard of rugby and the numbers in attendance is nowhere near where it once was.
To do nothing is absolutely crazy, and imo your opinion is very short sighted.

Sure a Dublin, limerick or cork team are unlikely to succeed in winning the challenge cup, but a few years of these teams competing against eachother, and better opposition from other countries would without doubt improve players abilities, which in turn will improve the standard of the AIL.

Again I think you have missed the point. As things stand any late developer or overlooked players are very unlikely to make the step up to provincial rugby. In Ireland we only have 4 professional teams with very limited space in their academies so players will get missed.

We need to put something in place to capture and develope these players. Sure my idea might not be perfect, or even any good, but your idea of doing nothing is extremely small minded, and counter productive.
AIL dead in terms of what?
Standard of rugby is down compared to when.
A county side minus any players contracted to provinces wouldn't help things. How would these teams help these players if these sides would be well out of their depth.
Late developers can and do get chances through the much maligned provincial A set up. You use that better than adding this needless tier.
I haven't at all suggested do nothing and I don't see how I am being small minded
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby munster#1 » August 3rd, 2016, 3:16 pm

ormond lad wrote:
munster#1 wrote:Look I know all this is completely hypothetical as the funding is not there to carry any additional teams, or introduce any additional cups.

Imo the AIL is dead unfortunately, I am a regular at matches and the standard of rugby and the numbers in attendance is nowhere near where it once was.
To do nothing is absolutely crazy, and imo your opinion is very short sighted.

Sure a Dublin, limerick or cork team are unlikely to succeed in winning the challenge cup, but a few years of these teams competing against eachother, and better opposition from other countries would without doubt improve players abilities, which in turn will improve the standard of the AIL.

Again I think you have missed the point. As things stand any late developer or overlooked players are very unlikely to make the step up to provincial rugby. In Ireland we only have 4 professional teams with very limited space in their academies so players will get missed.

We need to put something in place to capture and develope these players. Sure my idea might not be perfect, or even any good, but your idea of doing nothing is extremely small minded, and counter productive.
AIL dead in terms of what?
Standard of rugby is down compared to when.
A county side minus any players contracted to provinces wouldn't help things. How would these teams help these players if these sides would be well out of their depth.
Late developers can and do get chances through the much maligned provincial A set up. You use that better than adding this needless tier.
I haven't at all suggested do nothing and I don't see how I am being small minded


The AIL is dead in terms of quality and interest. Not everyone has lost interest, but going to a Shannon v Munsters match right now you would be happy if 2k people showed up as opposed to 10-12k in the late 90s early 00s.

It is also no longer a viable feeder system for the provinces as the gap has grown too big, with nothing done to stop it.
Club loyalty is nearly completely gone, with players happy to move to rival clubs if they receive a better offer or more chance of silverware.
I am not sure of your age, and I am not that old, but growing up it was practically unheard of for any players to move between the senior clubs in limerick.

The provincial A team is very rarely used to develope players not already in the provincial set up, how many examples of players can you think of who are playing in big game match day squads that have not already been in an academy and have come through the As?

You are of the opinion that my opinion is wrong, and you may be completely right, but you have failed to provide an alternative.
What would your solution be?
Do you believe that change is required?
User avatar
munster#1
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3927
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby ormond lad » August 3rd, 2016, 4:38 pm

munster#1 wrote:
ormond lad wrote:
munster#1 wrote:Look I know all this is completely hypothetical as the funding is not there to carry any additional teams, or introduce any additional cups.

Imo the AIL is dead unfortunately, I am a regular at matches and the standard of rugby and the numbers in attendance is nowhere near where it once was.
To do nothing is absolutely crazy, and imo your opinion is very short sighted.

Sure a Dublin, limerick or cork team are unlikely to succeed in winning the challenge cup, but a few years of these teams competing against eachother, and better opposition from other countries would without doubt improve players abilities, which in turn will improve the standard of the AIL.

Again I think you have missed the point. As things stand any late developer or overlooked players are very unlikely to make the step up to provincial rugby. In Ireland we only have 4 professional teams with very limited space in their academies so players will get missed.

We need to put something in place to capture and develope these players. Sure my idea might not be perfect, or even any good, but your idea of doing nothing is extremely small minded, and counter productive.
AIL dead in terms of what?
Standard of rugby is down compared to when.
A county side minus any players contracted to provinces wouldn't help things. How would these teams help these players if these sides would be well out of their depth.
Late developers can and do get chances through the much maligned provincial A set up. You use that better than adding this needless tier.
I haven't at all suggested do nothing and I don't see how I am being small minded


The AIL is dead in terms of quality and interest. Not everyone has lost interest, but going to a Shannon v Munsters match right now you would be happy if 2k people showed up as opposed to 10-12k in the late 90s early 00s.

It is also no longer a viable feeder system for the provinces as the gap has grown too big, with nothing done to stop it.
Club loyalty is nearly completely gone, with players happy to move to rival clubs if they receive a better offer or more chance of silverware.
I am not sure of your age, and I am not that old, but growing up it was practically unheard of for any players to move between the senior clubs in limerick.

The provincial A team is very rarely used to develope players not already in the provincial set up, how many examples of players can you think of who are playing in big game match day squads that have not already been in an academy and have come through the As?

You are of the opinion that my opinion is wrong, and you may be completely right, but you have failed to provide an alternative.
What would your solution be?
Do you believe that change is required?
The provinces have simply taken over a lot of interest and those 000s at club games watching the top players in the country are at provincial games. The late 90s/early 00s had no league for the provinces and they played much less than now.
The AIL is still a very strong part of the feeder system for the provinces. Players such as Jack O Donoghue and countless others will all play (o have played) a lot of AIL until they are ready for higher rugby.
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 433
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Inter-County Rugby

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » August 3rd, 2016, 5:08 pm

The attendances have been great for every AIL/Cup game I've been to over the last few years to be honest. Now we've been doing well and a lot of them were big games but even so.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 10093
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 8:49 pm


Return to General Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Trendiction-Bot [Bot] and 1 guest