Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

[paddyor]

I'm not usually one for the D4 conspiracies, but it's clear something is arse ways if this comes to pass. David and Joe live in Dublin and you'd be naive to think they're not influenced by the personalities that they're surrounded by on a daily basis. 

Having a committee of amateurs decide these things wasn't right, but those currently deciding them should be answerable to some form of group that is representative of rugby across the entire Island.

Theyre really working themselves into a frenzy down there. You can see why they had 2 training bases for so long.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

How come Munster can't afford to offer Ryan a decent contract? The Racing offer is hardly stratospheric if the reported amount is accurate.

Was wondering that myself. Can't imagine that the IRFU would object to him getting a provincial contact so what is stopping Munster paying him what he wants, with outside help if necessary?

Its all down to the Thomond Park development - it has been an albatross from the day it was decided not to sell the naming rights

I would give an awful lot of money to have it renamed the Heaslip arena.

Sounds to me like Munster have low balled him and expected the IRFU to step in but they haven't. The more time passes the more I'd expect him to stay, it's funny how the initial reports say things like signed/inked etc and then become less certain as the days go by. Although I thought the same about Marty. I struggle to see how he'd sign for Racing after the merger stuff though, surely he'd have been talking to them when that was announced and wouldn't have been aware of it? Even though it's off now, hard to believe that wouldn't put him off.

[Dave Cahill]

so the chkice of words you made before you even interacted with Dave was as a result of interacting with Dave.

That's some time travelling sh1t right there.

Probably tbe same type of logic that manages to drag Jamie Heaslip into a conversation about D Ryan.

[ronk]

My choice of words in this case were obviously wrong. That's what I get for interacting with David.

so the chkice of words you made before you even interacted with Dave was as a result of interacting with Dave.

That's some time travelling sh1t right there.

Probably tbe same type of logic that manages to drag Jamie Heaslip into a conversation about D Ryan.

Gets in the sense of gets found out.

Central contracts haven't been just for regular internationals for a few years. It's key strategic players.

Ryan has been excellent but he's not guaranteed to start or to stay fit. In terms of Lions discussions, I've seen 2 of his lock partners in the mix, but no one mentioned him.

Munster just signed an international on a short term contract. Neither the IRFU, nor Munster have been willing to reach to get him but they'd both like him at a lower price.

He's the source of this story and he did it before at contract time so he isn't much interested in the loyalty premium (relatively speaking). At least Munster get to make a call on it, we never did with Sexton.

[ronk]

.

[bamboozle]

E300k seems to me like a surprisingly low amount considering Madigan is rumoured to be getting 500k GBP at Bristol
I'd have thought between provincial contract and national appearances and win bonuses this would push someone in Ryan's position close to 250k, I could be wrong but if that's the case the 300k on offer seems a bit low
Comparing him to Heaslip is daft. Heaslip has probably started 3 times the games than Ryan at Provincial and International level.
Injury record is not great but current form is
A lot of money has been spent on short term stop gap signings in the last season by Munster, why not back the development and academy players?? First instinct seems to be short term signing.
Currently Munster are paying wages to Chilsom, Kleyn and Deysel - 3 overseas 2nd rows
Look for external commitments to go towards players salaries
This time last year it looked like Zebo and Earls were off with Murray having a lot of suitors...so I'm guessing the Ryan story might still have some legs to run
Potential for Ian Nagle to return to Munster this summer...

[hugonaut]

I'm not usually one for the D4 conspiracies, but it's clear something is arse ways if this comes to pass. David and Joe live in Dublin and you'd be naive to think they're not influenced by the personalities that they're surrounded by on a daily basis. 

Having a committee of amateurs decide these things wasn't right, but those currently deciding them should be answerable to some form of group that is representative of rugby across the entire Island.

Theyre really working themselves into a frenzy down there. You can see why they had 2 training bases for so long.

What can you say to that?

Nucifora is Australian and Schmidt's a New Zealander, but they're biased against Munster and you're naive if you don't believe it. Their Dublin neighbours obviously convinced them not to offer Donnacha Ryan a big contract.

The amateur committee system was bad, but we need an amateur committee system so the full time professionals don't make decisions I disagree with.

This is hysterical stuff, and I don't mean hysterically funny.

[blockhead]

Tony Ward has got in on the Heaslip angle to Ryangate.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/m ... 70826.html
My favourite bit

As with Peter O'Mahony, when the camera picks up on Ryan before a big game, his facial expression tells you what's in store.

[simonokeeffe]

open to correction but the most he can probably get on a provincial is 150k or so,

where on earth have you plucked that figure from?

previously announced deals/what was read in reputable places

Did Tony get in the disparity in tests the two have started let alone finished?

IF Munster are allowed/have to sign an NIQ replacement though its a bad net result for the IRFU

[munster#1]

I think some people on here are looking for a reason to feel offended.

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.
Surely both players were/are deserving of a further 2 year contract. If you do not agree that Ryan, like Heaslip deserves a contract extension, then say that.
Don't become petty and have a go at anyone who compares the 2 without providing an alternative opinion.

If you feel that Ryan does not deserve a further 2 years on 300K, then express that opinion. Then a proper conversation can take place.

As for the need to trawl through MF.com to find quotes to have a go at Munster and their fans. The term people in glass houses is very apt in this situation.

[fourthirtythree]

. The more time passes the more I'd expect him to stay, it's funny how the initial reports say things like signed/inked etc and then become less certain as the days go by. Although I thought the same about Marty.

This seems to be a special kind of contract akin to the US comics system, it's been pencilled, then inked, next it's off to the colorist and the letterer, and in a new development this one is sea-going as it needs to be copper bottomed also "it is understood that he has yet to completely copper-fasten his move." http://www.the42.ie/munster-rassie-eras ... 7-Mar2017/

Until Munster announce it's over, it's not over. I'd prefer him to stay here, but Munster should be able to come up with the cash to do that given the NIQ second rows they are paying for. In terms of how bad for Ireland it's worse than Moore leaving but incomparably better than when we lost Sexton which was an unmitigated clusterfuckingomnishambles.

[fourthirtythree]

I think some people on here are looking for a reason to feel offended.

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.
Surely both players were/are deserving of a further 2 year contract. If you do not agree that Ryan, like Heaslip deserves a contract extension, then say that.
Don't become petty and have a go at anyone who compares the 2 without providing an alternative opinion.

If you feel that Ryan does not deserve a further 2 years on 300K, then express that opinion. Then a proper conversation can take place.

As for the need to trawl through MF.com to find quotes to have a go at Munster and their fans. The term people in glass houses is very apt in this situation.

According to Murray Kinsella it's "close to"
"The contract offer from Munster – funded by the IRFU, as with all provincial contracts – is thought to have come close to €300,000 per season when bonuses and incentives were factored in.
Racing’s contract is likely to rise above that and may even end up being higher than €400,000 per season when similar bonus payments are taken into account. Ryan will certainly be improving his annual earnings with a move to the Parisian club on a two-year deal."
Munster need to do what Leinster did and add some cash to that. I don't think anyone would or is arguing he isn't "worth" €300k, but we don't have a business decision to make here.

[offshorerules]

People can belittle the significance of this move all they want, but this decision by the irfu not to offer a contract to a first choice player, and one that has played so well of late, is crazy.

This will surely install some doubt in other players when weighing up their options to either come to Ireland or stay in Ireland.

The irfu are being quoted as sighting Ryan's age as the deciding factor in not offering him a contract. This is the same Ryan who is 4 days older than Heaslip, but unlike Heaslip, he plays in a position that is well known for longevity in players careers.

Nobody can blame Heaslip for receiving a contract, that's not his problem. But to offer Heaslip one and not Ryan is a poor indication on the irfu and their policies.

If this move does happen, and I hope to god it does not, this will be the first time in the pro era that Munster will be without an established international lock in their engine room, which will have its own impact.

M1 I really don't think anyone is belittling the significance of this news, they are however belittling the reaction of some Munster fans. I think its an important distinction.

[Dave Cahill]

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.

But it doesn't show that at all. All it shows is that the system has some actuarial foresight

Heaslip has been a regular for his province since 2006 and for his country since 2008 in which time he has played 328 first class games. He is so reliable and injury free that when he does get an injury people are so incapable of dealing with it that they have to make up conspiracy theories to explain it.

Over that roughly same period of time Ryan has 207 first class games and has been quite unfortunate with injury. He missed the AIs last autumn, has had two knee injuries and a foot injury that led to him missing, in total, almost two seasons worth of action.

There simply is no comparison between the two. And that is where 'supporters' of Ryan erred and let their true colours show. They picked completely the wrong player to play whatabout with. If they had hung on to see if, say, SOB - a player with a not dissimilar injury profile - gets a new Central Contract then they might have a point should it be renewed (even though at the point of renewal he will be younger than both Heaslip and Ryan are now). That wouldn't suit the agenda though.

[Peg Leg]

I think some people on here are looking for a reason to feel offended.

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.
Surely both players were/are deserving of a further 2 year contract. If you do not agree that Ryan, like Heaslip deserves a contract extension, then say that.
Don't become petty and have a go at anyone who compares the 2 without providing an alternative opinion.

If you feel that Ryan does not deserve a further 2 years on 300K, then express that opinion. Then a proper conversation can take place.

As for the need to trawl through MF.com to find quotes to have a go at Munster and their fans. The term people in glass houses is very apt in this situation.

Wow. Pot/Kettle.
On recent form yes he should get one. On his form over the course of his previous contract no I do not think he should get one.
You can be assured that this is being viewed based on a likely return on investment, number of games, estimated injury period taking historical injuries (retirement advice), time of absence, likelihood of recurrence of my injuries exacerbated by age, will all come into it. So the comparison with Heaslip is appropriate IMO.

My one hope would be that Heaslip getting one does not stand in the way of Stander getting one.

[OTT]

As an Irish fan I think it is a huge loss for us over the next few seasons if true. Ryan is the exact type of player we lack in the second row. We have guys who potentially have a higher ceiling like Dillane and Henderson but at the minute lack his toughness and work rate (sometimes they are like show pony/highlight reel players definitely lots of potential but it is still being nurtured) then a rake of young guys around the provinces who we hope will be Test standard one day and then Dev who is our Ryan, a good honest international standard lock who gives it everything.

I totally get why Munster fans would be fuming, I am annoyed as an Irish fan.


It is sad though that certain individuals have the inability to play the ball. Jamie Heaslip and Devin Toner have nothing to do with whether Ryan gets a central contract or not. And the rubbish that Leinster are getting favoured, please, the IRFU pushed Leinster back a few years when they lowballed Sexton, they pulled a central contract from Luke Fitzgerald when he got injured and they let the 26 year old second choice Irish tight head (at that time) leave the country last year. They obviously believe in the decisions they make and sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't but it is not over a provincial bias, they would hardly let Munster make all those NIQ signings if they were trying to sabotage them.

Hopefully and there is still hope Ryan will stay at Munster. Keith Earls has signed for Saracens (supposedly) at least twice at this stage and he is still with Munster so until the deal is definitely done there is still hope.

[wixfjord]

In all fairness guys, and we can laugh at MF, but over the last few years on here there have been plenty of similar posts accusing the IRFU of bias against Leinster, favouring Munster etc etc.

Swings and roundabouts.

The Heaslip stuff is just childish, but I'd expect nothing less from Ward!

The Murray Kinsella piece is enlightening. Ryan wanted to break contract last year and turned down a 300k offer. Aside from the central contract, that puts a different spin on things.

[Oldschool]

I think some people on here are looking for a reason to feel offended.

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.
Surely both players were/are deserving of a further 2 year contract. If you do not agree that Ryan, like Heaslip deserves a contract extension, then say that.
Don't become petty and have a go at anyone who compares the 2 without providing an alternative opinion.

If you feel that Ryan does not deserve a further 2 years on 300K, then express that opinion. Then a proper conversation can take place.

As for the need to trawl through MF.com to find quotes to have a go at Munster and their fans. The term people in glass houses is very apt in this situation.

Wow. Pot/Kettle.
On recent form yes he should get one. On his form over the course of his previous contract no I do not think he should get one.
You can be assured that this is being viewed based on a likely return on investment, number of games, estimated injury period taking historical injuries (retirement advice), time of absence, likelihood of recurrence of my injuries exacerbated by age, will all come into it. So the comparison with Heaslip is appropriate IMO.

My one hope would be that Heaslip getting one does not stand in the way of Stander getting one.

The problem for Stander, going forward, is not Heaslip.
It's all the other tyros.
Conan, Leavy, Jordi and JDVF and that's just Leinster.
WUM warning - This is not a wum, this is an opinion based on the available facts.

[simonokeeffe]

The 300k figure could be max theoretical case eg Munster win the double and he plays 25 or 30 games

MK reporting a pre contract has been signed but also he had talked to IRFU about leaving a year early so perhaps the overseas experience was always something he really wanted

[cormac]

For me, linking the Heaslip and Ryan cases, is to show how unfair the system is.

But it doesn't show that at all. All it shows is that the system has some actuarial foresight

Heaslip has been a regular for his province since 2006 and for his country since 2008 in which time he has played 328 first class games. He is so reliable and injury free that when he does get an injury people are so incapable of dealing with it that they have to make up conspiracy theories to explain it.

Over that roughly same period of time Ryan has 207 first class games and has been quite unfortunate with injury. He missed the AIs last autumn, has had two knee injuries and a foot injury that led to him missing, in total, almost two seasons worth of action.

There simply is no comparison between the two. And that is where 'supporters' of Ryan erred and let their true colours show. They picked completely the wrong player to play whatabout with. If they had hung on to see if, say, SOB - a player with a not dissimilar injury profile - gets a new Central Contract then they might have a point should it be renewed (even though at the point of renewal he will be younger than both Heaslip and Ryan are now). That wouldn't suit the agenda though.

A quick look at the actual on-pitch time from both players is even more illuminating.

Ryan has 157 apps and 8,641 mins of action for Munster.
Heaslip has 229 apps and roughly 17,250 mins of action of Leinster.

The discrepancy in actual game time is even more stark at international level.