Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 9:18 pm

wixfjord wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:

If he was in the IRFU's plans, they would have offered him a central contract (which Munster could have topped up).

One of the main selling points to keep people in Ireland is the carrot of international rugby.


Not offering a central contract does not mean that he's 'out of the IRFU's international plans'.

janeymac08 wrote:Once DOC lost his international contract, they didn't call him up again.


I think you're confusing correlation and causation there :lol:


And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 9:25 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Lads Ross not been picked in the autumn internationals 2010 was a farce at the time. There was an alternative to Hayes.
Regarding CC's I think they should be used for a player's peak period and not as a support to a province (in which case no Heaslip would not get one), but they should make moves to take player's in contract, into the cc fold. That way they would be contracting the beat player's at their peak regardless of their provincial contractual situation.


In Hayes' last game for Munster, munster won a penalty try with Hayes at TH v Leinster in the Pro12 final :D (2011).

Have a look

https://youtu.be/qzNmUPT45M8?t=3m17s
Last edited by janeymac08 on March 31st, 2017, 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 9:29 pm

paddyor wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:@paddyor
Most of those you mention were fairly well tied to Ireland because of their tax back situation. I remember everyone being amazed that Peter Stringer headed off (he obviously knew what was going to happen).

There was no one to replace John Hayes up to the time he retired. Remember Bent being parachuted in at one stage. POC, ROG & BOD were key players.

DOC is still going strong - he was Worchester's Player of the Year last year and I think he won man of the match last week at the age of 38.
James Coughlan is another one who seems to has been an ever present for Pau since he moved there 3 years ago.

The IRFU effectively told Ryan he was out of their international plans which is basically saying close the door on your way out - which is absolutely crazy bearing in mind the time he has on the clock and like John Hayes, was a late starter.

Stringer had already played in Ireland for 10 years and even though he went abroad it was initially on loan so he was always likely to retire in Ireland if he felt like it. Things changed and now he doesn't have to. He's become a journey man, fair play to him. He got usurped by TOL and then Murray and decided to move on instead of being 3rd choice SH.

Part of there "keyness" was there experience. ROG wasn't a key player for Ireland in his final season. IN hindsight, should ROG have been picked to bench against Argentina in 2012? BOD didn't offer the same attacking threat in his final season either but he brought other things, like experience. Hayes was well past it when he retired. There were alternatives.

I very much doubt DOC was MOTM. He was subbed around 60 minutes when his team were losing 31-19. Fair play to him, but I'd like to think there's a bit of a difference between playing for an Irish province and a relegation battling AP team. He got pushed down the pecking order at Munster by Foley and Ryan, decided to move on.

Forgot about Coughlan. He left for the payday really didn't he? Once Stander came in he was always been 8 ball in terms of contract negotiation. There wasn't space for him at any of the other provinces.

No he's not comparable to Hayes.
Early Life

He went to school at Nenagh CBS and played all his underage rugby with Nenagh Ormond, representing Munster and Irish Youths, before moving to St Munchin's College in Limerick, where he was a key member of the side that won the Munster Schools Rugby Senior Cup in 2002.

and
Shannon

Ryan is a member of Shannon RFC, who play in All-Ireland League. He won an AIL league medal with Shannon in the 2005–06 season. Ryan moved to Shannon following a successful period at Nenagh Ormond, where he learnt his trade.

and
Munster

Ryan made his debut for Munster against Ospreys on 3 September 2004, during a Celtic League fixture.[1] He made his Heineken Cup debut against Llanelli Scarlets on 16 December 2007.[2] He played for Munster in their 2007–08 Heineken Cup semi-final against Saracens,[3] and was on the bench for the 2008 Heineken Cup Final against Stade Toulousain, which Munster won 16–13.[4]

So he's played Rugby his whole life and actually made his senior debut before Heaslip. Hayes on the other hand took up rugby while he was working abroad in NZ IIRC. They're not comparable at all


A bit of detail for you:

''The evolution of Ryan's rugby career is fascinating. He took up the sport merely as a means to improve his body strength when he failed to make the Tipperary minor hurling team in the same season he represented the county in football. To his surprise he found he had a natural aptitude for rugby. After just one season he was a Munster and Ireland Youths player, had won a Senior Cup medal with St Munchin's and was already on the radar of Munster's academy director Ian Sherwin and head coach Alan Gaffney.

The only problem was he still wasn't convinced rugby was the sport for him.

He turned up to his first Munster Youths trial wearing a Manchester United jersey, missed another trial because he was playing a senior hurling game for Nenagh, got into a row with a referee in his third because when receiving a penalty he thought the official was giving a 'free' against him.

The dream of representing Tipperary in hurling eventually evaporated but despite his successes as an underage rugby player he still viewed the oval-ball game as a past-time and not a viable career path.

His rugby career continued to flourish, though, first with UCC and then with Sunday's Well, and eventually a development contract with Munster was offered and accepted.

He continued to play hurling for UCC when he could. His continuing dalliances were brought to a screeching halt after one particular weekend home. Ryan was watching his club's intermediate team in action when one of the selectors approached him and implored him to come on for the second half.''

From what I recall, Ryan turned down a Munster contract to spend a 4th Year in UCC and that Michael Cheika tried to sign him in 2006 when he saw him playing for Shannon v. UCD.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/s ... 79038.html
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Peg Leg » March 31st, 2017, 9:32 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:

If he was in the IRFU's plans, they would have offered him a central contract (which Munster could have topped up).

One of the main selling points to keep people in Ireland is the carrot of international rugby.


Not offering a central contract does not mean that he's 'out of the IRFU's international plans'.

janeymac08 wrote:Once DOC lost his international contract, they didn't call him up again.


I think you're confusing correlation and causation there :lol:


And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!

Ah now will you stop... he's not getting a cc and Munster won't pony up to keep him end of. The provinces all lose players to the national team at the same time as every other team in the league does too.
It's investment in the academy you need for those periods, no?
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Peg Leg » March 31st, 2017, 9:35 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Lads Ross not been picked in the autumn internationals 2010 was a farce at the time. There was an alternative to Hayes.
Regarding CC's I think they should be used for a player's peak period and not as a support to a province (in which case no Heaslip would not get one), but they should make moves to take player's in contract, into the cc fold. That way they would be contracting the beat player's at their peak regardless of their provincial contractual situation.


In Hayes' last game for Munster, munster won a penalty try with Hayes at TH v Leinster in the Pro12 final :D (2011).

Have a look

https://youtu.be/qzNmUPT45M8?t=3m17s

That says more about Leinster's performance than the bulls. He was struggling for the last few months of his career.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 9:37 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:Once DOC lost his international contract, they didn't call him up again.


I think you're confusing correlation and causation there :lol:


And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!

Ah now will you stop... he's not getting a cc and Munster won't pony up to keep him end of. The provinces all lose players to the national team at the same time as every other team in the league does too.
It's investment in the academy you need for those periods, no?[/quote]

The difference is that Leinster have 8 contracts covered. Connacht has 0, Ulster have 3, and Munster will have 3.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 9:38 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:I think you're confusing correlation and causation there :lol:


And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!

Ah now will you stop... he's not getting a cc and Munster won't pony up to keep him end of. The provinces all lose players to the national team at the same time as every other team in the league does too.
It's investment in the academy you need for those periods, no?[/quote]

The difference is that Leinster have 8 contracts covered. Connacht has 0, Ulster have 3, and Munster will have 3.[/quote]

The way you are talking, you would have expected that the Leinster front row would have eaten him alive. They didn't.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby wixfjord » March 31st, 2017, 9:47 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!


No idea what you're referring to here, I didn't say anything was a 'plus for Munster'.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Peg Leg » March 31st, 2017, 10:16 pm

Yes but Leinster had 15 in the squad
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 10:22 pm

wixfjord wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!


No idea what you're referring to here, I didn't say anything was a 'plus for Munster'.


The concept of central contracts is to incentivise provinces to produce top players for the Ireland national team. The Provinces are meant to be compensated for this loss by taking players that are regular internationals off the Provinces books because these players availability is restricted.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » March 31st, 2017, 10:25 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Yes but Leinster had 15 in the squad


I think Munster had 11 or 12 including Ryan who was a starter.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Peg Leg » March 31st, 2017, 11:35 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Yes but Leinster had 15 in the squad


I think Munster had 11 or 12 including Ryan who was a starter.

Sorry Jmac but do you not think the irfu should focus on peak talent like Stander and Henshaw, rather than maintaining a great for the last period of their career?
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby fourthirtythree » March 31st, 2017, 11:56 pm

The idea of central contracts is to reward provinces by taking wage bills off them? Are you on crack? That's nonsense. Utter nonsense. Fantasy.

Take a player like, oh I don't know, how about Sexton? He was made to play against Zebre (when we didn't want him playing) but rested against Munster. Or a guy like Seán O'Brien, or Rob Kearney: they play to get match fit for Ireland, not when Leinster actually want them.

It turns out the IRFU didn't feel the need for that control with Ryan (we may disagree, but we aren't in control of the cash), just as they didn't feel at one stage with Sexton (pure stupid: as clever as the look on Dylan Hartley's face when trying to find out how he could form a ruck), but Munster don't seem to want to pony up either. Could they do it? I don't know, but if the wage gap is as small as is suggested even a €60k* Saffer lock would cover the difference so the proof is in the pudding. Is a €60K* saffer lock a better investment for Munster than €300K on Ryan? Well they seem to think so.

When Heaslip was renewing I don't doubt that Leinster would have gone the full whack, or gone balls out to do so, to get him to renew on a provincial. Look at how many games he plays for us DESPITE being an Irish international. Not so sure they would have done that with Seán O'Brien. Or some other of the centrally contracted players who have bit roles for Leinster. The central contracts are servitude for the provinces, not rewards.




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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby paddyor » April 1st, 2017, 12:08 am

Golf Man wrote:Pretty obvious what he meant and it's relevant (his injury history is also relevant) .

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Which part?
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby paddyor » April 1st, 2017, 12:15 am

janeymac08 wrote:A bit of detail for you:

''The evolution of Ryan's rugby career is fascinating. He took up the sport merely as a means to improve his body strength when he failed to make the Tipperary minor hurling team in the same season he represented the county in football. To his surprise he found he had a natural aptitude for rugby. After just one season he was a Munster and Ireland Youths player, had won a Senior Cup medal with St Munchin's and was already on the radar of Munster's academy director Ian Sherwin and head coach Alan Gaffney.

The only problem was he still wasn't convinced rugby was the sport for him.

He turned up to his first Munster Youths trial wearing a Manchester United jersey, missed another trial because he was playing a senior hurling game for Nenagh, got into a row with a referee in his third because when receiving a penalty he thought the official was giving a 'free' against him.

The dream of representing Tipperary in hurling eventually evaporated but despite his successes as an underage rugby player he still viewed the oval-ball game as a past-time and not a viable career path.

His rugby career continued to flourish, though, first with UCC and then with Sunday's Well, and eventually a development contract with Munster was offered and accepted.

He continued to play hurling for UCC when he could. His continuing dalliances were brought to a screeching halt after one particular weekend home. Ryan was watching his club's intermediate team in action when one of the selectors approached him and implored him to come on for the second half.''

From what I recall, Ryan turned down a Munster contract to spend a 4th Year in UCC and that Michael Cheika tried to sign him in 2006 when he saw him playing for Shannon v. UCD.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/s ... 79038.html

Cheers for that. But it's still not comparable to Hayes.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » April 1st, 2017, 12:20 am

Peg Leg wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Yes but Leinster had 15 in the squad


I think Munster had 11 or 12 including Ryan who was a starter.

Sorry Jmac but do you not think the irfu should focus on peak talent like Stander and Henshaw, rather than maintaining a great for the last period of their career?


Interesting question. CJ doesn't have a central contract, so Munster is carrying his wage.

I'd like the IRFU to be consistent and perhaps base it on recent performance. If that was the case I doubt if either Healy, Toner or Kearney would have a central contract.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » April 1st, 2017, 12:22 am

paddyor wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:A bit of detail for you:

''The evolution of Ryan's rugby career is fascinating. He took up the sport merely as a means to improve his body strength when he failed to make the Tipperary minor hurling team in the same season he represented the county in football. To his surprise he found he had a natural aptitude for rugby. After just one season he was a Munster and Ireland Youths player, had won a Senior Cup medal with St Munchin's and was already on the radar of Munster's academy director Ian Sherwin and head coach Alan Gaffney.

The only problem was he still wasn't convinced rugby was the sport for him.

He turned up to his first Munster Youths trial wearing a Manchester United jersey, missed another trial because he was playing a senior hurling game for Nenagh, got into a row with a referee in his third because when receiving a penalty he thought the official was giving a 'free' against him.

The dream of representing Tipperary in hurling eventually evaporated but despite his successes as an underage rugby player he still viewed the oval-ball game as a past-time and not a viable career path.

His rugby career continued to flourish, though, first with UCC and then with Sunday's Well, and eventually a development contract with Munster was offered and accepted.

He continued to play hurling for UCC when he could. His continuing dalliances were brought to a screeching halt after one particular weekend home. Ryan was watching his club's intermediate team in action when one of the selectors approached him and implored him to come on for the second half.''

From what I recall, Ryan turned down a Munster contract to spend a 4th Year in UCC and that Michael Cheika tried to sign him in 2006 when he saw him playing for Shannon v. UCD.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/s ... 79038.html

Cheers for that. But it's still not comparable to Hayes.


They were both around 18 when they took up rugby. Ryan was still playing hurling when he was in college. Guys like Healy and Toner had won school cups at that stage.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 1st, 2017, 12:39 am

Dev never won a schools cup
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby fourthirtythree » April 1st, 2017, 12:45 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Dev never won a schools cup


Nor has any of the excuse making made sense either.

Are Munster going to get the cash to tempt Ryan to continue playing with them? If not, why not?
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » April 1st, 2017, 12:46 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Dev never won a schools cup


OK, playing schools cup.
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