Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby fourthirtythree » April 1st, 2017, 12:45 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Dev never won a schools cup


Nor has any of the excuse making made sense either.

Are Munster going to get the cash to tempt Ryan to continue playing with them? If not, why not?
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » April 1st, 2017, 12:46 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Dev never won a schools cup


OK, playing schools cup.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby janeymac08 » April 1st, 2017, 12:54 am

fourthirtythree wrote:
Oldschoolsocks wrote:Dev never won a schools cup


Nor has any of the excuse making made sense either.

Are Munster going to get the cash to tempt Ryan to continue playing with them? If not, why not?


You are the one that got Ryan's early career all wrong :D
Early Life (His early life started at about 18 :roll: )

He went to school at Nenagh CBS and played all his underage rugby with Nenagh Ormond, representing Munster and Irish Youths, before moving to St Munchin's College in Limerick, where he was a key member of the side that won the Munster Schools Rugby Senior Cup in 2002.
From what I recall, he went to Munchins for 1 year to play Schools Rugby :D Limerick is about 40Km from Nenagh.

Shannon
Ryan is a member of Shannon RFC, who play in All-Ireland League. He won an AIL league medal with Shannon in the 2005–06 season. Ryan moved to Shannon following a successful period at Nenagh Ormond, where he learnt his trade.
His first season playing rugby.

and
Munster

Ryan made his debut for Munster against Ospreys on 3 September 2004, during a Celtic League fixture.[1] He made his Heineken Cup debut against Llanelli Scarlets on 16 December 2007.[2] He played for Munster in their 2007–08 Heineken Cup semi-final against Saracens,[3] and was on the bench for the 2008 Heineken Cup Final against Stade Toulousain, which Munster won 16–13.[4]

His competition was POC. He says himself in that article he reinvented himself as a blindside flanker to make the 2011 world cup (I think he beat Dev Toner to the squad).

I think Schmidt & Nucifora thought that Ryan would never leave Munster as he had struck with Munster through thick and thin and they would get him on the cheap when they needed him.

Ryan called their bluff.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 1st, 2017, 1:14 am

OK JMac, Wasn't being a smart ass
In Dev never winning schools cup - just a correction.
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby paddyor » April 1st, 2017, 1:22 am

fourthirtythree wrote:The idea of central contracts is to reward provinces by taking wage bills off them? Are you on crack? That's nonsense. Utter nonsense. Fantasy.

Take a player like, oh I don't know, how about Sexton? He was made to play against Zebre (when we didn't want him playing) but rested against Munster. Or a guy like Seán O'Brien, or Rob Kearney: they play to get match fit for Ireland, not when Leinster actually want them.

It turns out the IRFU didn't feel the need for that control with Ryan (we may disagree, but we aren't in control of the cash), just as they didn't feel at one stage with Sexton (pure stupid: as clever as the look on Dylan Hartley's face when trying to find out how he could form a ruck), but Munster don't seem to want to pony up either. Could they do it? I don't know, but if the wage gap is as small as is suggested even a €60k* Saffer lock would cover the difference so the proof is in the pudding. Is a €60K* saffer lock a better investment for Munster than €300K on Ryan? Well they seem to think so.

When Heaslip was renewing I don't doubt that Leinster would have gone the full whack, or gone balls out to do so, to get him to renew on a provincial. Look at how many games he plays for us DESPITE being an Irish international. Not so sure they would have done that with Seán O'Brien. Or some other of the centrally contracted players who have bit roles for Leinster. The central contracts are servitude for the provinces, not rewards.




*Allegedly
*Allegedly

From the Cardiff thread.
hugonaut wrote:We have played 24 games this season [13 of them at home], and if you think of the players who are [in my opinion] nailed on Lions, they hardly ever play league games in the RDS:
– McGrath [7+5, 554 mins - 4 home starts/1 home league start: vs Ulster],
- Furlong [8+3, 567 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster],
- Sexton [7+0, 389 mins - 4 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Zebre],
- Henshaw [9+0, 696 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Munster, vs Zebre]

The 50+ cap brigade, the guys who are household names [in rugby houses, anyway] have played a little more often at home, but still not very often at all

- Heaslip [10+2, 838 mins - 6 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Ulster]
- O'Brien [7+0, 420 mins - 5 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Ulster, vs Zebre]
- Healy [10+5, 659 mins – 6 home starts/6 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Zebre, vs Cardiff]
- R. Kearney [6+3, 503 minutes - 3 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Munster]
- Cronin [8+3, 522 mins – 6 home starts/4 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Ulster]
- Ross [5+9, 482 mins – 2 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Edinburgh]

Considering that the Munster home game is played in Lansdowne Road and had 40k+ at it, it's a bit of an oddity and attendance clearly isn't a problem. Attendances at the Connacht and Ulster games were both good, listed as 18200. But for the most part, our biggest names and best players have played once or twive at home in the league in the RDS. And we have played 9 league games there.

We've one home league game left so those home league games starts aren't going to change much.

If you break it down.
There's 28 regular season games, 14 of which are at home. The CCs miss about 9-10 games of the regular season (Summer tour lay-off, AIs, 6N). Then they have to start all 6 HEC games even to the detriment of the team (SOB, Sexton vs Montpellier). They also have to play in any play-off games (Rob Kearney 2016 P12 final), depending on whether you make it to the knock out stages you may have to manage their game time further. But leaving that aside, there's 12-13 league games where there available for 8-10 depending on the player. Say half of them are home, adding up the HEC games you get to play them in half your home games. They play 5-6 for Ireland in a season. And your ability to use them for marketing is severely restricted. That's all before you factor in injuries.

This would have applied to Munster in a big way back in the day too. I'm not saying there's no benefit to them, but it really restricts the provinces ability to grow their revenue.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby paddyor » April 1st, 2017, 1:26 am

janeymac08 wrote:They were both around 18 when they took up rugby. Ryan was still playing hurling when he was in college. Guys like Healy and Toner had won school cups at that stage.

Around 18? Ryan was Senior Schools cup rugby at the same age Hayes was learning the sport in Invercargill. I no longer care.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby paddyor » April 1st, 2017, 1:29 am

janeymac08 wrote:......

His competition was POC. He says himself in that article he reinvented himself as a blindside flanker to make the 2011 world cup (I think he beat Dev Toner to the squad).

I think Schmidt & Nucifora thought that Ryan would never leave Munster as he had struck with Munster through thick and thin and they would get him on the cheap when they needed him.

Ryan called their bluff.

According to Murray Kinsella, Ryan wanted out of his contract last year. Your line of thinking doesn't really add up. What/when were the thick and thin parts that Ryan stuck with Munster?
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby hugonaut » April 1st, 2017, 1:39 am

janeymac08 wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Lads Ross not been picked in the autumn internationals 2010 was a farce at the time. There was an alternative to Hayes.
Regarding CC's I think they should be used for a player's peak period and not as a support to a province (in which case no Heaslip would not get one), but they should make moves to take player's in contract, into the cc fold. That way they would be contracting the beat player's at their peak regardless of their provincial contractual situation.


In Hayes' last game for Munster, munster won a penalty try with Hayes at TH v Leinster in the Pro12 final :D (2011).

Have a look

https://youtu.be/qzNmUPT45M8?t=3m17s


Good man. His last game for Munster was on Stephens' Day 2011 [the 2011-12 season] against Connacht: http://munsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=JH642261
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby munster#1 » April 1st, 2017, 9:08 am

The real impact of a decision like this will be felt when the irfu apply the same reasoning across the board.
When players like Healy, Toner, Kearney etc are not granted new contracts as they are not seen as first choice players, which imo they will not be come contract renewal time.

Ryan is, as we discuss the issue, a first choice lock, but the irfu must not feel that he will be in the near future.
When renewing central contracts, will they now apply the logic that a player who is first choice now, but may not be in 12 months, is not getting one.

Imo opinion there is nothing to suggest that Ryan will not be first choice in 12-24 months time. So in making their decision, the irfu have essentially made the Irish team weaker.

Does this not go against the real purpose of central contracts, which is to have the best players available for Ireland, playing in Ireland and having control of that player.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Peg Leg » April 1st, 2017, 9:47 am

Yeah I'd agree with the sentiment of the first paragraph but you could be proven wrong 're toner and Healy
And I thought your suggestion in the third was part of the problem? He wanted more than 2 yrs
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby munster#1 » April 1st, 2017, 10:04 am

Peg Leg wrote:Yeah I'd agree with the sentiment of the first paragraph but you could be proven wrong 're toner and Healy

I could well be proven wrong, I just picked those players to get the point across.
It's as likely that best, bowe, trimble and earls will lose theirs.

On healy if he does regain the number 1 Jersey, we could see McGrath lose out.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby wixfjord » April 1st, 2017, 10:36 am

janeymac08 wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
And how is that a plus for Munster - have a load of players away with Ireland with no compensation to recruit players to cover when they are gone!


No idea what you're referring to here, I didn't say anything was a 'plus for Munster'.


The concept of central contracts is to incentivise provinces to produce top players for the Ireland national team. The Provinces are meant to be compensated for this loss by taking players that are regular internationals off the Provinces books because these players availability is restricted.


Yes I'm well aware. Again though, I didn't say anything to that effect!
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Ruckedtobits » April 2nd, 2017, 11:24 am

Peter O'Reilly in ST really adding fuel to this topic today as he suggests that DR sought a move to Leinster last Season (ostensively because his girlfriend was based in Dublin) and then declined to negotiate with IRFU / Munster after November window this Season, whilst Jamie did just that.

Pretty heady stuff if true. PO'R also links Ryan's decision making with the future of Rassie in Munster and he, fairly strongly, links the dots to Rassie taking Springbok job imminently.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby wixfjord » April 2nd, 2017, 11:42 am

Piece also says that with regards the deal on offer from Munster, 2/3rds was to be paid by IRFU and it was 'not hugely less valuable than' the Racing offer.

Puts a very different spin on things.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby simonokeeffe » April 2nd, 2017, 1:18 pm

So we could still sign Ryan if we wanted ? :mrgreen:
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 2nd, 2017, 3:04 pm

Start the whip round lads
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby CiaranIrl » April 2nd, 2017, 5:06 pm

Edit, wrong thread
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby simonokeeffe » April 2nd, 2017, 8:47 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Start the whip round lads


if he helps pays his wages Dennis O'Brien can spread his most hated man in Ireland to rural parts of Munster he hasnt reached yet
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Dave Cahill » April 2nd, 2017, 8:51 pm

So to sum up, far from being thrown out the door by old-man Heaslip, Ryan has actually wanted to get out of Munster for a while now and would prefer to play for Leinster than Munster, and if he can't move to Leinster would rather leave the english speaking world than stay in Munster.

Cool? Cool.
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Re: Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 2nd, 2017, 8:58 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:So to sum up, far from being thrown out the door by old-man Heaslip, Ryan has actually wanted to get out of Munster for a while now and would prefer to play for Leinster than Munster, and if he can't move to Leinster would rather leave the english speaking world than stay in Munster.

Cool? Cool.


Pretty neat summation there DC, you only missed that Ger Earls never got his cap and Franno's a bollicks
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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