Future of European Club Rugby

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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby BlueBlue » April 12th, 2017, 6:00 pm

olaf the fat wrote:Wales may be more of a problem than Italy or Scotland.

They seem to look longingly at the AP. If only they could or would compete in the Hcup/CCup they may get some traction for their clubs. At the moment they seem mildly interested in the PRO12.

We see 2 Pro12 clubs in the last 4 in Europe - others see it as 2 IRFU teams


To be fair the WRU is committed to the Pro12, they don't look for scraps off the English table, its the regional sides that do that. However with dual contracts and 50% ownership of Dragons (perhaps more now) the WRU are in control, that was not the case 2 years ago. The WRU won the civil war, that's a major positive for the Pro12.

Any ejit can see that there is no room for anything other than the English sides in Aviva Premiership, in fact there is not even enough room. The shareholders in AP are 14, not 12. They either have to axe 2 shareholders or extend the season, hence the move to reduce the 6N and expand the club calendar. They cannot scrap relegation until they sort this. English championship rugby will be set adrift. What fool thinks they are going to make room for 4 welsh regions. Not a chance, turkeys voting for Christmas.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby Dave Cahill » April 12th, 2017, 7:43 pm

ronk wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Thats the thing that welsh fans don't understand and welsh administrators know for certain!


But would it bother administrators if it was a fair accompli that was beyond their control and there was no alternative.


It would bother them certainly. They'd have no control (or even less than they currently do) and with the exception of Ospreys, they might not have any teams at the higher level. The English don't want to be lumbered with them, and Wales itself, already quite poor, is about to get a lot poorer post-brexit.

If English Rugby crossed the rubicon to let non English sides into the Premiership, the best Welsh side would be their, at best, seventh choice
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby paddyor » April 15th, 2017, 4:06 pm

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/welsh-rugby-can-only-sustain-12895129#ICID=sharebar_twitter

1.49m loss for Cardiff. A board member has called for the umber of Welsh teams to be cut to 2.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby ronk » April 15th, 2017, 4:35 pm

Very generous of him to offer to cut the other teams.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby simonokeeffe » April 15th, 2017, 5:06 pm

ronk wrote:Very generous of him to offer to cut the other teams.


that did make me laugh alright

they can definitely support 3 centrally funded teams but problem was clubs wouldnt accept regions then funded disastorous moves into soccer stadiums and resisted central contracts
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby ronk » April 16th, 2017, 11:43 pm

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/blacks-north ... gby-360991

Interesting article about developments in creating elite structures in Welsh schools rugby.

Probably will have an impact but it's only one side of the story and there are mentions of resistance.

If the regions go around thinking they need the same budget as Gloucester to be competitive they'll keep having problems.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby BlueBlue » April 28th, 2017, 9:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -Doncaster

Very interesting, the gist of the article is that 1 of the 4 potential promotion hopefuls from championship rugby to Premiership rugby, will not compete in the Premiership, because they don't want to. They see it as a path to ruin just like London Welsh because the pro rugby set up in England is broken. In the unlikely event that Doncaster or Ealing win the play-offs, they wont be promoted and Bristol will survive.

Its likely that they know its near on impossible to beat London Irish over 2 legs, but still I believe a civil war is brewing in England between the clubs.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby BlueBlue » April 28th, 2017, 9:58 am

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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby simonokeeffe » April 28th, 2017, 11:47 am

BlueBlue wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/27/bristol-reprieve-championship-rugby-union-play-offs-Doncaster

Very interesting, the gist of the article is that 1 of the 4 potential promotion hopefuls from championship rugby to Premiership rugby, will not compete in the Premiership, because they don't want to. They see it as a path to ruin just like London Welsh because the pro rugby set up in England is broken. In the unlikely event that Doncaster or Ealing win the play-offs, they wont be promoted and Bristol will survive.

Its likely that they know its near on impossible to beat London Irish over 2 legs, but still I believe a civil war is brewing in England between the clubs.


2 of the 4 albeit the unlikeliest 2

Good (old) News for Bristol is if they go down theres no playoffs next year so they can recruit early and with more certainty
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby wixfjord » April 28th, 2017, 11:54 am

Such clickbait there from Guardian and Balls. There isn't a hope that Doncaster or Ealing will beat both London Irish and Carnegie.

Anyway, hasn't this situation happened before with a few clubs?
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby cormac » April 28th, 2017, 12:15 pm

wixfjord wrote:Such clickbait there from Guardian and Balls. There isn't a hope that Doncaster or Ealing will beat both London Irish and Carnegie.

Anyway, hasn't this situation happened before with a few clubs?


Yes, quite a few times
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby IanD » April 28th, 2017, 1:32 pm

wixfjord wrote:Such clickbait there from Guardian and Balls. There isn't a hope that Doncaster or Ealing will beat both London Irish and Carnegie.

Anyway, hasn't this situation happened before with a few clubs?


It has happened but the important thing IMO is that both clubs asked not to be vetted for promotion. In the past clubs were held back after failing the criteria for Premiership grounds etc.

From the press release below Doncaster don't want to bankrupt themselves.

https://www.drfc.co.uk/news/article/clu ... ia-results

The press release is interesting too as it states

“English professional rugby union is currently in a state of flux and there is much to be debated about the future of both the Championship and the Premiership, evidenced by the scrapping of the recent proposals made by Nigel Melville and Dean Ryan.

“If and when the future of professional rugby union in England becomes clear, then the ambition of Doncaster Rugby Club remains as fervent as ever but we will not cripple ourselves chasing something that is not feasible at this time.

Hardly all singing from the same hymn sheet.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby simonokeeffe » April 28th, 2017, 4:41 pm

lets be paranoid and claim theyve had rumblings of BT scaling back
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby BlueBlue » May 10th, 2017, 2:41 pm

IanD wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Such clickbait there from Guardian and Balls. There isn't a hope that Doncaster or Ealing will beat both London Irish and Carnegie.

Anyway, hasn't this situation happened before with a few clubs?


It has happened but the important thing IMO is that both clubs asked not to be vetted for promotion. In the past clubs were held back after failing the criteria for Premiership grounds etc.

From the press release below Doncaster don't want to bankrupt themselves.

https://www.drfc.co.uk/news/article/clu ... ia-results

The press release is interesting too as it states

“English professional rugby union is currently in a state of flux and there is much to be debated about the future of both the Championship and the Premiership, evidenced by the scrapping of the recent proposals made by Nigel Melville and Dean Ryan.



“If and when the future of professional rugby union in England becomes clear, then the ambition of Doncaster Rugby Club remains as fervent as ever but we will not cripple ourselves chasing something that is not feasible at this time.

Hardly all singing from the same hymn sheet.


I agree IanD, this may have happened before, and yes they are the 2 side least likely to progress, but its a very different thing to say before a play-off ball is kicked that we are not interested.

Whats happening here is a start of a new civil war in English club rugby, 2 of the teams in the Greene King IPA championship are Aviva Premiership stake holders, one of them IS London iRISH, Bristol who drop down to the championship are and will remain a AP stakeholder with voting rights. The Championship sides (10 of the 12 in the league) are saying we are not playing by your rules anymore, we are not playing promotion-relegation anymore at the risk of there club. The background to this is that Championship sides play a development role/ feeder role to AP clubs, they get 500k a year for this. When the big new BT money came in it was not shared downward with championship clubs. Also its clear that promotion is only viable for the 2 AP clubs in the championship and that the AP is becoming a closed shop where in the future there will be no promotion from the championship.

The big question is, how do the AP fit 14 stakeholder clubs with voting rights into the season, or simply put how can they make the AP a 14 team competition. We can already see the moves to compress the international season. Again the AP clubs will be on a collision course with RFU over the cutting off of the Championship clubs, and over the season calendar. The lions already have had 2 weeks taken off there next tour. Civil war is coming.

Regarding welsh regions joining the AP, in my opinion it will not ever happen, also its not the WRU who were ever interested in this it was regional owners/ sugar daddies, that boat has sailed with the WRU taking back control of international players (dual contracts), bringing the regions to heel and the now official take over of Newport Dragons (100%), and now the move to take over Cardiff Blues.
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Re: Future of European Club Rugby

Postby BlueBlue » May 10th, 2017, 2:43 pm

Welsh unio open talks to take over Cardiff blues.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... r-13011750

Newport Dragons will be 100% owned by WRU after Newport RFC give a 81% vote to accept WRU offer of 3.75m
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