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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby paddyor » April 9th, 2017, 1:36 pm

munster#1 wrote:After reading your post I was in agreement with you, but it appears that after your post a few extras joined the rodeo.
Perhaps they are just rodeo clowns, but they may also just be bulls, seeing little more than a red rag.

If this lad goes on to start ahead of any of Munster's first choice backrow players in a big game, or even bench ahead of a fit JOD then I will join the outrage brigade, but right now they do seem like little more than narrow minded individuals.

Rodeo clowns...Raging bulls......Outrage brigade.....Narrow minded individuals. Tha's quite the list of enemies you've amassed. You okay, you seem rattled? Have people been disagreeing with you again?
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby paddyor » April 9th, 2017, 2:14 pm

Three Super Rugby teams, including one from Australia, are to be axed after this season, governing body SANZAAR has announced.

Under pressure due to financial losses and fan discontent over the confusing and unbalanced competition, SANZAAR has opted to slash it from 18 teams to 15 and from four conferences to three - the numbers that existed in 2015.

SANZAAR has left it to the national rugby unions involved to announce the teams to be cut, Australia's Perth-based Western Force and South Africa's Kings and Cheetahs widely considered the most vulnerable franchises.

The 18-team format, introduced in 2016 after Argentina's Jaguares and the Sunwolves of Japan joined the competition and the Kings returned, was widely criticised and there were fears the quality of the product was being diluted.


Happy shopping!
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby dropkick » April 9th, 2017, 4:13 pm

paddyor wrote:
Three Super Rugby teams, including one from Australia, are to be axed after this season, governing body SANZAAR has announced.

Under pressure due to financial losses and fan discontent over the confusing and unbalanced competition, SANZAAR has opted to slash it from 18 teams to 15 and from four conferences to three - the numbers that existed in 2015.

SANZAAR has left it to the national rugby unions involved to announce the teams to be cut, Australia's Perth-based Western Force and South Africa's Kings and Cheetahs widely considered the most vulnerable franchises.

The 18-team format, introduced in 2016 after Argentina's Jaguares and the Sunwolves of Japan joined the competition and the Kings returned, was widely criticised and there were fears the quality of the product was being diluted.


Happy shopping!



There'll probably be less players to pick. Fewer teams means they'll be able to pay a high wage to the top players (those that European team are eyeing up) and they can get rid of the low quality players, who nobody wants.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby ronk » April 9th, 2017, 9:47 pm

dropkick wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Three Super Rugby teams, including one from Australia, are to be axed after this season, governing body SANZAAR has announced.

Under pressure due to financial losses and fan discontent over the confusing and unbalanced competition, SANZAAR has opted to slash it from 18 teams to 15 and from four conferences to three - the numbers that existed in 2015.

SANZAAR has left it to the national rugby unions involved to announce the teams to be cut, Australia's Perth-based Western Force and South Africa's Kings and Cheetahs widely considered the most vulnerable franchises.

The 18-team format, introduced in 2016 after Argentina's Jaguares and the Sunwolves of Japan joined the competition and the Kings returned, was widely criticised and there were fears the quality of the product was being diluted.


Happy shopping!



There'll probably be less players to pick. Fewer teams means they'll be able to pay a high wage to the top players (those that European team are eyeing up) and they can get rid of the low quality players, who nobody wants.


3 full squads to hit the market
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby munster#1 » April 10th, 2017, 8:58 am

Funny reading all these digs directed at Munster about signing so many foreign players, and in fairness they have signed an unprecedented number, but the likely squad for the big games will be:

Killer, Scannell, Ryan,
Ryan, Holland,
POM, TOD, Stander,
Murray, Tyler,
Sweetnam, Scannell, Taute, Earls, Zebo.

Rep: Cronin, Marshall, Archer, DOC, JOD, Williams, Keatly, Saili.

Granted Kleyn would no doubt be in there either ahead of, or behind Holland, but the persecution seems a bit wide of the mark when you look at the facts.
All fit, we would have 2 (maybe 3 if Kleyn were fit) Niq players in the starting 15, and 2 on the bench ( not counting Kleyn twice).

Kleyn fit, that brings it to 5 niq players, with 3 of those being project players that.
Granted the number should probably be less, maybe reduced to 4, but it is proof that despite the outrage, Munster have developed or are playing a large percentage of IQ players in their starting squad.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby goreyguy » April 10th, 2017, 9:18 am

[quote="munster#1"]Funny reading all these digs directed at Munster about signing so many foreign players, and in fairness they have signed an unprecedented number, but the likely squad for the big games will be:

Killer, Scannell, Ryan,
Ryan, Holland,
POM, TOD, Stander,
Murray, Tyler,
Sweetnam, Scannell, Taute, Earls, Zebo.

Rep: Cronin, Marshall, Archer, DOC, JOD, Williams, Keatly, Saili.

Granted Kleyn would no doubt be in there either ahead of, or behind Holland, but the persecution seems a bit wide of the mark when you look at the facts.
All fit, we would have 2 (maybe 3 if Kleyn were fit) Niq players in the starting 15, and 2 on the bench ( not counting Kleyn twice).

Kleyn fit, that brings it to 5 niq players, with 3 of those being project players that.
Granted the number should probably be less, maybe reduced to 4, but it is proof that despite the outrage, Munster have developed or are playing a large percentage of IQ players in their starting squad.[/quote]

that's a minimum requirement.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby munster#1 » April 10th, 2017, 9:43 am

goreyguy wrote:
munster#1 wrote:Funny reading all these digs directed at Munster about signing so many foreign players, and in fairness they have signed an unprecedented number, but the likely squad for the big games will be:

Killer, Scannell, Ryan,
Ryan, Holland,
POM, TOD, Stander,
Murray, Tyler,
Sweetnam, Scannell, Taute, Earls, Zebo.

Rep: Cronin, Marshall, Archer, DOC, JOD, Williams, Keatly, Saili.

Granted Kleyn would no doubt be in there either ahead of, or behind Holland, but the persecution seems a bit wide of the mark when you look at the facts.
All fit, we would have 2 (maybe 3 if Kleyn were fit) Niq players in the starting 15, and 2 on the bench ( not counting Kleyn twice).

Kleyn fit, that brings it to 5 niq players, with 3 of those being project players that.
Granted the number should probably be less, maybe reduced to 4, but it is proof that despite the outrage, Munster have developed or are playing a large percentage of IQ players in their starting squad.[/quote]

that's a minimum requirement.


It is not a minimum requirement, it is the only requirement. It is the reason that the provinces exist in their current form, and the reason they remain to do so.

Munster had probably more players capped in this seasons 6 nations that any of the previous years since Joe took over.
That alone shows that all of these foreign players are not preventing local talent from coming through, and are, more likely to improve their set.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Golf Man » April 10th, 2017, 10:26 am

Its fairly obvious trolling (and boring at that) but there really isn't much difference when it really boils down to it

A quick look at the European stats - Leinster have given 14 starts in this European campaign to NIQs - Munster have 16 - Munster have more sub appearances but on average Munster have 4 NIQ in a match day squad, Leinster have 3. Munster may have two NIQ centres in a 23, Leinster often have 2 NIQ back 3 players (and will do so again next season)

Munster rely more on NIQ - we don't and probably will never have the depth within Munster that Leinster have - and the reasons for that (Population, schools system primarily) aren't going to change any time soon.

Its also very clear that we are developing more and better Irish players - Ryan, Scannell x 2, Sweetnam, JOD etc
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby paddyor » April 10th, 2017, 10:30 am

munster#1 wrote:Funny reading all these digs directed at Munster about signing so many foreign players, and in fairness they have signed an unprecedented number, but the likely squad for the big games will be:

Killer, Scannell, Ryan,
Ryan, Holland,
POM, TOD, Stander,
Murray, Tyler,
Sweetnam, Scannell, Taute, Earls, Zebo.

Rep: Cronin, Marshall, Archer, DOC, JOD, Williams, Keatly, Saili.

Granted Kleyn would no doubt be in there either ahead of, or behind Holland, but the persecution seems a bit wide of the mark when you look at the facts.
All fit, we would have 2 (maybe 3 if Kleyn were fit) Niq players in the starting 15, and 2 on the bench ( not counting Kleyn twice).

Kleyn fit, that brings it to 5 niq players, with 3 of those being project players that.
Granted the number should probably be less, maybe reduced to 4, but it is proof that despite the outrage, Munster have developed or are playing a large percentage of IQ players in their starting squad.

THat makes no sense. We should have less NIQ players but even though we don't it's proof we're developing players?

It hasn't been reduced to 4 and you've played more than just 4 NIQ players throughout the season. And they've helped you to 2nd in the league, possibly 1st and likely a home SF. I wonder how much better Ulster would be with an extra 2-3 Super rugby players that they can ocassionally drop in ahead of Reidy for example (similar level to Copeland)
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby All Blacks nil » April 10th, 2017, 11:34 am

Golf Man wrote:Its fairly obvious trolling (and boring at that) but there really isn't much difference when it really boils down to it

A quick look at the European stats - Leinster have given 14 starts in this European campaign to NIQs - Munster have 16 - Munster have more sub appearances but on average Munster have 4 NIQ in a match day squad, Leinster have 3. Munster may have two NIQ centres in a 23, Leinster often have 2 NIQ back 3 players (and will do so again next season)

Munster rely more on NIQ - we don't and probably will never have the depth within Munster that Leinster have - and the reasons for that (Population, schools system primarily) aren't going to change any time soon.

Its also very clear that we are developing more and better Irish players - Ryan, Scannell x 2, Sweetnam, JOD etc


*** Edited by Mod ***
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Golf Man » April 10th, 2017, 12:22 pm

I know nothing will stop the trolls - I'm not a fan of the ignore button but threads are pretty unreadable with shite like this being posted continuously

Two quarter finals
Munster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Taute, Bleyendall, Marshall, Sailli ), 1 Residency Qualified (Stander), 1 IQ developed elsewhere (Conway) and 17 who came through Munster system

Leinster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Nacewa, Triggs, JGP, Kirchner), 1 Residency Qualified (Strauss), 2 IQ developed elsewhere (Bent & Henshaw) and 16 who came through the Leinster system

There's nothing worth talking about in the difference and its all pots and kettles - Munster have probably pushed it a little bit this year with the jokers, but Leinster haved pushed it before (Thorn) and are kind of pushing it again next year with two Back 3 NIQs again - the year after ROL, Byrne and Carberry break through
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby All Blacks nil » April 10th, 2017, 12:33 pm

If you really want to be pedantic, two of the four Munster NIEs (TB and RM) are project players whereas only one of the Leinster 4 (JGB) is a project player.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby paddyor » April 10th, 2017, 12:33 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:
Golf Man wrote:Its fairly obvious trolling (and boring at that) but there really isn't much difference when it really boils down to it

A quick look at the European stats - Leinster have given 14 starts in this European campaign to NIQs - Munster have 16 - Munster have more sub appearances but on average Munster have 4 NIQ in a match day squad, Leinster have 3. Munster may have two NIQ centres in a 23, Leinster often have 2 NIQ back 3 players (and will do so again next season)

Munster rely more on NIQ - we don't and probably will never have the depth within Munster that Leinster have - and the reasons for that (Population, schools system primarily) aren't going to change any time soon.

Its also very clear that we are developing more and better Irish players - Ryan, Scannell x 2, Sweetnam, JOD etc


You won't stop Paddyor trolling or change his mind. He still thinks Rhys Ruddock will make it as a Six Nations blindside on the back of a masterclass in tackling in Exeter (I think) three years ago against the English Saxons (see signature) Bless him

Funny, but MunsterSugar who seems to have been banned from the forum (he/she was provocative) has had his/her signature with a reference to Paddyor deleted by the moderators.

Troll on Paddy

I remember that year, Ruddock went on to get a 6 nations medal. Was in great form all the way into the 6 nations and captained the Wolfhounds. Handy reminder in the signature. Just the facts.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby paddyor » April 10th, 2017, 12:38 pm

Golf Man wrote:I know nothing will stop the trolls - I'm not a fan of the ignore button but threads are pretty unreadable with shite like this being posted continuously

Two quarter finals
Munster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Taute, Bleyendall, Marshall, Sailli ), 1 Residency Qualified (Stander), 1 IQ developed elsewhere (Conway) and 17 who came through Munster system

Leinster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Nacewa, Triggs, JGP, Kirchner), 1 Residency Qualified (Strauss), 2 IQ developed elsewhere (Bent & Henshaw) and 16 who came through the Leinster system

There's nothing worth talking about in the difference and its all pots and kettles - Munster have probably pushed it a little bit this year with the jokers, but Leinster haved pushed it before (Thorn) and are kind of pushing it again next year with two Back 3 NIQs again - the year after ROL, Byrne and Carberry break through

What about the other 25 games in the season where the imports bolstered the squad?
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby All Blacks nil » April 10th, 2017, 12:47 pm

paddyor wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:
Golf Man wrote:Its fairly obvious trolling (and boring at that) but there really isn't much difference when it really boils down to it

A quick look at the European stats - Leinster have given 14 starts in this European campaign to NIQs - Munster have 16 - Munster have more sub appearances but on average Munster have 4 NIQ in a match day squad, Leinster have 3. Munster may have two NIQ centres in a 23, Leinster often have 2 NIQ back 3 players (and will do so again next season)

Munster rely more on NIQ - we don't and probably will never have the depth within Munster that Leinster have - and the reasons for that (Population, schools system primarily) aren't going to change any time soon.

Its also very clear that we are developing more and better Irish players - Ryan, Scannell x 2, Sweetnam, JOD etc


You won't stop Paddyor trolling or change his mind. He still thinks Rhys Ruddock will make it as a Six Nations blindside on the back of a masterclass in tackling in Exeter (I think) three years ago against the English Saxons (see signature) Bless him

Funny, but MunsterSugar who seems to have been banned from the forum (he/she was provocative) has had his/her signature with a reference to Paddyor deleted by the moderators.

Troll on Paddy

I remember that year, Ruddock went on to get a 6 nations medal. Was in great form all the way into the 6 nations and captained the Wolfhounds. Handy reminder in the signature. Just the facts.
That's right
Played 25 mins against Italy in BOD's swansong. Made one tackle that day of a career total of 5 as a Six Nations blindside.
Five tackles in three years doesn't suggest he has made it as a big tackling Six Nations blindside.
There is always next year as he reaches his peak and improves his athleticism.
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby Golf Man » April 10th, 2017, 3:40 pm

paddyor wrote:
Golf Man wrote:I know nothing will stop the trolls - I'm not a fan of the ignore button but threads are pretty unreadable with shite like this being posted continuously

Two quarter finals
Munster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Taute, Bleyendall, Marshall, Sailli ), 1 Residency Qualified (Stander), 1 IQ developed elsewhere (Conway) and 17 who came through Munster system

Leinster - 4 NIQ in 23 (2+2 - Nacewa, Triggs, JGP, Kirchner), 1 Residency Qualified (Strauss), 2 IQ developed elsewhere (Bent & Henshaw) and 16 who came through the Leinster system

There's nothing worth talking about in the difference and its all pots and kettles - Munster have probably pushed it a little bit this year with the jokers, but Leinster haved pushed it before (Thorn) and are kind of pushing it again next year with two Back 3 NIQs again - the year after ROL, Byrne and Carberry break through

What about the other 25 games in the season where the imports bolstered the squad?


I decided to check - 13.6% of Leinster's starts this year have been by NIQ, 16.3% of Munsters have. Looking at it from match day squad - Leinster are at 12.4%, Munster are at 14.8%

What can be deduced from this
1.Munster are marginally more reliant than Leinster on NIQ, something which I think everybody is in agreement with
2. You are talking out of your arse
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Re: Munster 2016-2017

Postby limecat » April 10th, 2017, 3:57 pm

This thread is once again becoming an embarrassment. Locking until I have time to make a decision on it's (and the worst offending posters) future.
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ugh...

Postby Dave Cahill » April 12th, 2017, 2:39 pm

Cor. Ind. wrote:I'm loving the arrogance on this thread. Oh, hear ye Mocker Gods? Dave Cahill has opined between morsels of KFC chicken, spice bags and Big Macs...

Munster will be lucky if they manage to get nil on the scoreboard.


This is what I said about Munster

Munster are an okay side, not much more, who have been boosted by external motivation and an avant-garde application of the foreign player rules


and

Back in October, when both sides had pretty much their full selections available to them, give or take, Leinster gave Munster a bit of a tanning without getting out of second gear so in that regard I'd far rather play them than Saracens, but theres still an element to the interprovincial derby that renders it unpredictable and that makes me wary.


I see nothing other than simple statements of fact. Where is the arrogance and why?
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Re: The other semi

Postby Golf Man » April 12th, 2017, 3:06 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:This is what I said about Munster

Munster are an okay side, not much more, who have been boosted by external motivation and an avant-garde application of the foreign player rules


and

Back in October, when both sides had pretty much their full selections available to them, give or take, Leinster gave Munster a bit of a tanning without getting out of second gear so in that regard I'd far rather play them than Saracens, but theres still an element to the interprovincial derby that renders it unpredictable and that makes me wary.


I see nothing other than simple statements of fact. Where is the arrogance and why?


Munster are an okay side, not much more,
- an opinion, not a statement of fact
who have been boosted by external motivation
- fact but entirely unquantifiable
boosted by .. an avant-garde application of the foreign player rules
- clearly not a fact - Leinster are pretty much reliant as Munster on NIQs

Back in October, when both sides had pretty much their full selections available to them, give or take, Leinster gave Munster a bit of a tanning without getting out of second gear so in that regard I'd far rather play them than Saracens, but theres still an element to the interprovincial derby that renders it unpredictable and that makes me wary.
- there are facts in there but its missing a lot of context. Munster have won 19/21 games since the game you refer to

You are kind of right though, although are are arguing it the wrong way - Munster are clearly, on paper, the worst of the 4 teams left and thereby the one that most would want to play
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Re: The other semi

Postby Dave Cahill » April 12th, 2017, 3:28 pm

Golf Man wrote:
Munster are an okay side, not much more,
- an opinion, not a statement of fact


No, thats fair enough, I wasn't clear enough in my meaning, you were right to point that out.

I should have been clearer and said something along of the lines of

Munster finished sixth last season which would indicate they were an okay side but not much more


and then said

who have since been boosted by a new head coach, external motivation and and having 10 Non Irish Qualified players on their books this season, more than double the normally allowed limit
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