You've got more NIQs than us...

[Cor. Ind.]

I'm loving the arrogance on this thread. Oh, hear ye Mocker Gods? Dave Cahill has opined between morsels of KFC chicken, spice bags and Big Macs...

Munster will be lucky if they manage to get nil on the scoreboard.

This is what I said about Munster

Munster are an okay side, not much more, who have been boosted by external motivation and an avant-garde application of the foreign player rules

and

Back in October, when both sides had pretty much their full selections available to them, give or take, Leinster gave Munster a bit of a tanning without getting out of second gear so in that regard I'd far rather play them than Saracens, but theres still an element to the interprovincial derby that renders it unpredictable and that makes me wary.

I see nothing other than simple statements of fact. Where is the arrogance and why?

Loving your backhanded compliments. An okay team that finished 2nd seeds in the group stages, has gotten past last year's T14 champions, and 4 & 2 times HEC winners along the way.

Whatever the motivational stimulus was after the sudden, tragic loss of Foley, it can only take you so far. If it was only that we would have hit a massive lull by now.

Your focus on our "avant-garde application of foreign player rules" is worth investigating. Half of the famed 'terrible ten' have played barely a minute of 1st team rugby this season and some not a minute at all: Griesel, Chisholm, Toma, Deysel, Du Toit.
Of the remaining 5, 3 (Rhys, TB, Kleyn) are Nucifora sanctioned projects who will all become IQ in the next two years. Of the remaining two, one is a medical joker (Jaco) and the other was our big ticket acquisition (Saili) to help push season ticket sales, a la James Lowe.

A far better comparison between Munster & Leinster is to look at our use of resources in the recent ERC QF. There we used 2 pps and 2 niqs, while you used 1 pp and 3 niqs - how truly avant-garde...Take it away Derick Bailey!

What really amazes me though is that a county the size of Cork (less than 200k) can produce 11 players in Munster's 23, while a county the size of Dublin (circa 1.2m) produces a number less than that for Leinster. But then we all innately know Cork is the greatest county in Ireland. Now that Dave is a fact, not an opinion!

[The Doc]

Loving your backhanded compliments. An okay team that finished 2nd seeds in the group stages, has gotten past last year's T14 champions, and 4 & 2 times HEC winners along the way.

Whatever the motivational stimulus was after the sudden, tragic loss of Foley, it can only take you so far. If it was only that we would have hit a massive lull by now.

Your focus on our "avant-garde application of foreign player rules" is worth investigating. Half of the famed 'terrible ten' have played barely a minute of 1st team rugby this season and some not a minute at all: Griesel, Chisholm, Toma, Deysel, Du Toit.
Of the remaining 5, 3 (Rhys, TB, Kleyn) are Nucifora sanctioned projects who will all become IQ in the next two years. Of the remaining two, one is a medical joker (Jaco) and the other was our big ticket acquisition (Saili) to help push season ticket sales, a la James Lowe.

A far better comparison between Munster & Leinster is to look at our use of resources in the recent ERC QF. There we used 2 pps and 2 niqs, while you used 1 pp and 3 niqs - how truly avant-garde...Take it away Derick Bailey!

What really amazes me though is that a county the size of Cork (less than 200k) can produce 11 players in Munster's 23, while a county the size of Dublin (circa 1.2m) produces a number less than that for Leinster. But then we all innately know Cork is the greatest county in Ireland. Now that Dave is a fact, not an opinion!

I feel a slippery slope coming and another locked thread - let's leave the NIQ debate for the pub

[Lar]

I feel a slippery slope coming and another locked thread - let's leave the NIQ debate for the pub

+1

[FLIP]

Loving your backhanded compliments. An okay team that finished 2nd seeds in the group stages, has gotten past last year's T14 champions, and 4 & 2 times HEC winners along the way.

Whatever the motivational stimulus was after the sudden, tragic loss of Foley, it can only take you so far. If it was only that we would have hit a massive lull by now.

Your focus on our "avant-garde application of foreign player rules" is worth investigating. Half of the famed 'terrible ten' have played barely a minute of 1st team rugby this season and some not a minute at all: Griesel, Chisholm, Toma, Deysel, Du Toit.
Of the remaining 5, 3 (Rhys, TB, Kleyn) are Nucifora sanctioned projects who will all become IQ in the next two years. Of the remaining two, one is a medical joker (Jaco) and the other was our big ticket acquisition (Saili) to help push season ticket sales, a la James Lowe.

A far better comparison between Munster & Leinster is to look at our use of resources in the recent ERC QF. There we used 2 pps and 2 niqs, while you used 1 pp and 3 niqs - how truly avant-garde...Take it away Derick Bailey!

What really amazes me though is that a county the size of Cork (less than 200k) can produce 11 players in Munster's 23, while a county the size of Dublin (circa 1.2m) produces a number less than that for Leinster. But then we all innately know Cork is the greatest county in Ireland. Now that Dave is a fact, not an opinion!

I feel a slippery slope coming and another locked thread - let's leave the NIQ debate for the pub

The Munster posters wouldn't get kicked out come closing time at 11 like the rest of us though.

[paddyor]

boosted by .. an avant-garde application of the foreign player rules

- clearly not a fact - Leinster are pretty much reliant as Munster on NIQs

No we're not. NIQs in Munster have significantly more gametime in minutes accross all 3 competions (Munster have also made it to the final of the B&I cup)than their equivalents in Leinster.Go ahead and check.

[Xanthippe]

ERCC games and minutes this season



Not sure I'd use the word significant to describe the differences

[Golf Man]

Munster are slightly more dependent but it's a thing of nothing as any troll of stats will prove. Munster have had mo
re guys on the books and there is an argument to be had about that - the contribution- negligible difference

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[fourthirtythree]

One third higher. Plus two starters v one.
Plus Kirchner has his games through injury, he doesn't make the Pro 12 23 with a reasonably clean bill of health.

Not sure how you would define significant that that doesn't meet it.

[paddyor]

ERCC games and minutes this season



Not sure I'd use the word significant to describe the differences

The entire season? Here's what I got

Kleyn 599
Marshall 637
Sailli 578
Taute 1428
Deysel 60
Bleyendaal 1480
Toma (A) 254
Chisholm (A) 20
Greisel 6
Du Toit 148
Total 5210

Kirchner 1327
Nacsewa 1338
JGP 910
Triggs 658
Total 4233

They don't give mins palyed for the A side on Leinsters site. IIRC Triggs started at least 1 game in the B&I. Can't get anything on Greisel either other than what I saw on Ultimate rugby. Toma is 240 for the A side but has been an unused sub at least twice. From glancing thru ultimate rugby to get du Toits minutes, they had a t least 4 in most squads thru the middle part of the season (even got it up to 6 vs Connacht).

[Golf Man]

This is getting embarassing

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[Xanthippe]

ERCC games and minutes this season



Not sure I'd use the word significant to describe the differences

The entire season? Here's what I got

Kleyn 599
Marshall 637
Sailli 578
Taute 1428
Deysel 60
Bleyendaal 1480
Toma (A) 254
Chisholm (A) 20
Greisel 6
Du Toit 148
Total 5210

Kirchner 1327
Nacsewa 1338
JGP 910
Triggs 658
Total 4233

They don't give mins palyed for the A side on Leinsters site. IIRC Triggs started at least 1 game in the B&I. Can't get anything on Greisel either other than what I saw on Ultimate rugby. Toma is 240 for the A side but has been an unused sub at least twice. From glancing thru ultimate rugby to get du Toits minutes, they had a t least 4 in most squads thru the middle part of the season (even got it up to 6 vs Connacht).

But this thread is not about the entire season it's about the ERCC so those are the stats I used.

[Golf Man]

ERCC games and minutes this season



Not sure I'd use the word significant to describe the differences

The entire season? Here's what I got

Kleyn 599
Marshall 637
Sailli 578
Taute 1428
Deysel 60
Bleyendaal 1480
Toma (A) 254
Chisholm (A) 20
Greisel 6
Du Toit 148
Total 5210

Kirchner 1327
Nacsewa 1338
JGP 910
Triggs 658
Total 4233

They don't give mins palyed for the A side on Leinsters site. IIRC Triggs started at least 1 game in the B&I. Can't get anything on Greisel either other than what I saw on Ultimate rugby. Toma is 240 for the A side but has been an unused sub at least twice. From glancing thru ultimate rugby to get du Toits minutes, they had a t least 4 in most squads thru the middle part of the season (even got it up to 6 vs Connacht).

You need to let this go - using your figures above Munsters game time is 16.1% taken by NIQs, Leinsters is 13.6%, which correlates almost exact;ly with starts/total ppearances/etc All you are doing is backing up that Munster are slightly more reliant on NIQs than Leinster. The fact that Leinster have better local depth than Munster, contributing to Munster having a slightly more reliance on NIQs shoudl surprise no one

We should be focusing on the fact that Munster and Leinster won their qurterfinals with squads that were 83% IQ and 72% home grown - thats the impressive stat (and again there s neglibile difference between the two)

[Ruckedtobits]

Jesus can we get a permaban on this topic? It's been flogged to death.

Some posters have managed to go an entire season saying every Munster win was lucky, against disinterested opposition whatever, it's fair to say they don't rate Munster, grand but let's not drag every thread into a rehash of that conversation.

I'm excited for Leinster and excited for Munster, let's talk about the semis that are coming!

So assuming CJ is out who plays in the Munster backrow? And who benches? Deysl has a lot of fitness work to do and I think Oliver has almost done enough for the bench. Start Peter, Tommy, Jack with Deysl as lock cover and Oliver as backrow?

That post deserves more than a +1.
HEAR, HEAR!

[simonokeeffe]

Theyve less foreign players than Saracens so lets at least focus on that

Did laugh when Mark McCall said thered be 50k in red at the game, basically admitting the size of their travelling support is tiny