Munster 2017 -2018

[ronk]

Fullback is the highest paid average position in England. Haley is young and capped for the As. With the salary cap there he was likely on more money than you expect. But for international rugby and weak sterling he may be willing to take a small pay cut. Beirne was.

Funnily enough I thought Munster would have been fine without replacing Zebo with the talent they have coming through.

I’m not sure than continuing to recruit so heavily is sustainable for Munster, especially when Ulster are now at a point where they would benefit more from an injection of IQ talent. They’re losing Piutau and probably Payne so IRFU leverage could have been well used. Now there’s a situation where a prospective international fullback is being signed for the same club where the next in line international fullback is already.

[dropkick]

I doubt Haley is earning a lot at Sale. He would have signed his current contract when he was about 21. Even so, paying off his current contract and giving him a 3 year contract will still be a hell of a lot cheaper than signing Zebo for 3 years.
I've only seen a small bit of Haley but he looks a decent all rounder.


The 10 year tickets selling out is great news if true. Good for Munster and Irish rugby.


The Munster academy has been working well these past few years and theres a good 5+ players filtering through to the main squad every year. The reason why so many non Munster men are still needed is because the academy wasn't producing enough after the golden generation came along. You could see the average age creeping up and nothing coming through back then. Now the average age has come down and there are players coming through in most positions. So from now on I think we'll start to see a higher percentage of players from Munster, every year.

[Dave Cahill]

Haley was in the England Elite Player Squad, so he would have been on a decent screw - the RFU and the RPA signed a big new deal about 18 months ago

[RAILWAY1]

One reason the Munster Academy wasn't producing a steady flow of prospects for the senior squad could be that some of those who were supposed to scout emerging talent from the age grades were obsessed with schools players and did not seem to be all that interested in club players from around the province. Hopefully those that run Munster rugby have woken up and we can provide more players from within going forward.

[Oldschoolsocks]

One reason the Munster Academy wasn't producing a steady flow of prospects for the senior squad could be that some of those who were supposed to scout emerging talent from the age grades were obsessed with schools players and did not seem to be all that interested in club players from around the province. Hopefully those that run Munster rugby have woken up and we can provide more players from within going forward.

is the bolded above true?

dpeasn't really matter tbh - I agree with the last sentence I know I'm long in the tooth, but in my day if you didn't go to one of the blessed schools you had to be exceptionally better than the youngfella down the road who went to a private school to get a look in

[RAILWAY1]

It's changing but very slowly

[BlueBlue]

I know mythology trumps facts in Munster or even the plain truth, but give us a break. We all know that Munster's fans lost interest in their team over the last few years with 2016/17 season being particularly bad. Gate sales were a 2m short fall in 2016/17, meaning the IRFU had to Bail Out Munster to the tune of 1.8m. Google Tom Grace IRFU financial statement for the published figures, but below this Irish Times piece covers a lot of essentials.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.2723985

Right now Munster are up to their eyes in debt, the 1.8m bail out is clearly on record, as are some Thomond Park repayments (repayments get cloudy as there were different amounts over payment term, most missed) but my estimate based on figures available is approx 4m outstanding payment today, with the total repayment being 9m Stadium payment plus 1.8m bail out of 2016/17 season.

The 9m outstanding on the stadium had various levels of repayment but the IRFU are on record as saying that they did not receive payment in 2015 , 16, 17 and do not expect payments in 2018 or 19. They have also gone on record to say that Munster (or any other province) would not be bailed out again.

"Philip Browne does not expect the Munster Branch to be able to meet repayments on the €9 million they owe the IRFU".


“There was no repayment received this year in respect of the Munster loan which relates to Thomond Park, ” said Tom Grace.- July 2016.

Munster were due to pay €200,000 in April 2016, and €4.2m in April 2017, none of these payments were made. In 2018 they were scheduled to pay 0.5m each year until 2026, when the final payment in 2026 would be €761,778. Again the IRFU are on record as saying they do not expect these obligations to be met in 2018, and perhaps not in 2019.

Simple maths (And good business sense) would tell you that there is a low interest rate in play here, I'm guessing at a rate close to rates payable by banks if this money was in an account, and enough to ensentifise Munster to repay on time.

So Munster owe far more money than they can currently make payments on and the sum is growing (modestly, but growing). Not a good place to be.

The claim that Munster made 1m last year is rubbish, if true as in June 2016 they were bailed out with 1.8m on to of arrears deth of 4.4m on a loan of 9m. If they did make 1m (evidence please), the IRFU would have taken most if not all and Munster would still be in arrears by 5.2m with 4.6m of future payments. Not a good place to be.

I'd liken Munster to Scottish rugby and the Murryfield debts , debt broke their backs for 50years, they are only recently becoming free of it. Munster will not be free of substantial debt until 2030 at the earliest.

[BlueBlue]

IRFU warns there will be no more Munster bailouts....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 99288.html

[BlueBlue]

Munster CEO Garrett Fitzgerald, who will oversee an expected loss of €2.3m this season,- Irish Examiner May 2016.

[BlueBlue]

It’s understood the total loss, which is still to be confirmed at Munster’s annual general meeting, is in excess of €2 million and the IRFU will now bail the province out to that sum as they look to rebound next season.- The 42 May 16th 2016.

[BlueBlue]

Confirmation of an interest rate close to deposit account rates, 50 / 60k per year.

It also points out that Munster lost 330k in 2015, and approx 2m in 2016.

Munster recorded a financial deficit of €1.9 million this season.

When Munster concluded their AGM last Thursday night, the grim reality of their financial position was laid out for all to see.

Years of mismanagement, both on and off the pitch, had culminated in the province posting a massive €1.9 million deficit for the year ending June 30 2016.

Although Munster’s Financial Controller, Philip Quinn, cited reduced gate receipts and increased player costs for the poor financial returns, the fact remains that the province’s deficit is far in excess of €330,000 recorded at last year’s AGM.

As a result, the Irish Independent have reported that the IRFU will come to Munster’s aid by topping up their annual grant by an additional €1.1 million.

Furthermore, as Munster owe €10 million following the the revamp of Thomond Park, an agreement has been reached whereby the annual repayment of €200,000 will not be sought by the IRFU, instead the province will only service the interest on the loan this year.

Quinn told the Irish Examiner,

We were due to pay €200,000 this year but the IRFU haven’t asked us for that money. They asked us for the interest but we’re talking €50-60,000 interest, which is the deposit rate that they’d be getting on the €10 million.

With Munster badly in need of a number of new players, what this means for Rassie Erasmus and his management team is not yet clear.

However what has become evident, is the distance Munster must now travel if they are to compete with Europe’s elite teams in the future.

Alan Drumm, Pundit Arena

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm ... l-bailout/

[janeymac08]

by Timbit » March 1st, 2018, 10:41 am
Munster sign a young IQ fullback with money saved on Zebo. Babbling brook think this is hard on Connacht and it's exceptionalism. Ye lads have gone very weird.

You bought him out of his contract a year early so how did you save money?!

As for thinking its exceptionalism you are correct. I do. No province except yours would be given the cash to do this as you utterly mismanaged yourselves for years meaning the brave and faithful stayed away in droves. The IRFU now need to keep you relatively successful so they can get some money back from the loans they gave you for the debt star.

He was cheaper than first SA target. Not sure he had to be bought out of his contract. That seemingly only applies to Premiership clubs to stop poaching.

[janeymac08]

However, the current financial projection for year ending 30th June 2017 predicted a cash-flow surplus of €310K, a marked improvement on the budgeted breakeven.

In presenting the financial update at last night’s AGM, Munster Rugby Head of Finance and Operations, Philip Quinn, discussed the main drivers behind the expected improvement year-on-year with gate income increasing by €2.05M on the 2015/16 season.

The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase. Although much of this was directly offset by associated match costs, regular season income also improved with seven sell-outs across Cork and Limerick. Taking both Maori and Toulouse encounters into account, Munster enjoyed a total of nine capacity crowds in 2016/17, a new record for the province.

As a consequence, tickets sales for Thomond Park and Irish Independent Park rose by 52% to 305,000, attendances increased from 124,000 to 243,000, with the attendance rate climbing from 62% to 80% of tickets sold. This in turn benefitted ancillary revenue streams such as bars, catering, hospitality and match programmes.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2017/06/08/muns ... -update-3/

[blockhead]

However, the current financial projection for year ending 30th June 2017 predicted a cash-flow surplus of €310K, a marked improvement on the budgeted breakeven.

In presenting the financial update at last night’s AGM, Munster Rugby Head of Finance and Operations, Philip Quinn, discussed the main drivers behind the expected improvement year-on-year with gate income increasing by €2.05M on the 2015/16 season.

The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase. Although much of this was directly offset by associated match costs, regular season income also improved with seven sell-outs across Cork and Limerick. Taking both Maori and Toulouse encounters into account, Munster enjoyed a total of nine capacity crowds in 2016/17, a new record for the province.

As a consequence, tickets sales for Thomond Park and Irish Independent Park rose by 52% to 305,000, attendances increased from 124,000 to 243,000, with the attendance rate climbing from 62% to 80% of tickets sold. This in turn benefitted ancillary revenue streams such as bars, catering, hospitality and match programmes.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2017/06/08/muns ... -update-3/

Great news!
The rest of us will get fleeced just a little bit less this year.

[ronk]

“The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase.”

Not sustainable. It’s a movement in the right direction, but there’s a narrow window to get on top of growing costs.

[RAILWAY1]

If the IRFU wanted to boost the coffers of Thomond Park inc. which operates as a separate entity to Munster rugby and thus clear more off the debt they should play more of the under 20s and wolfhounds games in Thomond Park.

[BlueBlue]

300k is small potatoes when you owe 9 to 10m. Still it's better than -330k of 2015 and -1.8m 2016.

[sunshiner1]

by ronk
“The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase.”

Not sustainable. It’s a movement in the right direction, but there’s a narrow window to get on top of growing costs.

The IRFU are trying there best to make it sustainable though. Remember Munster vs Australia or the Irish team going down there to take on Fiji? All to help pay off the Munster debt.

[RAILWAY1]

Playing the u/20s and A games in different parts of the country helps to grow the game more. Outside of the Greater Dublin Area rugby is in a serious battle for players specially at age grade levels with other sports so having these games move around would have the double benefit of boosting the game and the coffers in these areas.

[janeymac08]

“The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase.”

Not sustainable. It’s a movement in the right direction, but there’s a narrow window to get on top of growing costs.

When Thomond Park was being redeveloped, the plan had been to stage one of the smaller autumn internationals in Thomond every year (like Fiji, Georgia, etc). When the IRFU sold the naming rights for the Aviva, it lost that option because all internationals have to be played in the Aviva (and why one Fiji game was a non-international).

I don't know why it isn't unsustainable. Teams queue up to play Munster. Think SA are on the cards for this year.