by ronk
“The Maori All Blacks game in November and home knock out games in both the Champions Cup and Guinness PRO12 accounted for most of the gate income increase.”
Not sustainable. It’s a movement in the right direction, but there’s a narrow window to get on top of growing costs.
The IRFU are trying there best to make it sustainable though. Remember Munster vs Australia or the Irish team going down there to take on Fiji? All to help pay off the Munster debt.
They are not actually. They have blocked games in Thomond because the IRFU were worried it would take from the Aviva games.
Munster's 10 & 5 year ticket sales were up this year and they have been sold out with a waiting list. Thats what will pay off Munster's stadium debt.
Munster is very lucky as it owns its own stadiums (Thomond & Musgrave) and both are in great nick now, not to mention its new training centre in UL. Munster have invested a lot over the last 10 years in infrastructure.
No doubt your right Janey, but the problem is over that period they have failed to invest in developing players. It is at the end of the day the players that give the performances, that deliver the wins and ultimately keep the crowds coming. It didn't take jig time for attendances to drop in the newly refurbished Thomond when the performances were poor. This in turn lead to the player being booed by their own supporters and fans being turned off coming to games.
"POC will not be going to Toulon" - All Blacks nil » May 27th, 2015, 12:18 am
Munster Rugby were told from the start of the Thomond Park project that the sale of the naming rights to the new Lansdowne Road stadium would involve an exclusivity condition and that their budgeting could not include any international revenue. Munster's deficit on the project came entirely from decisions Munster made. If Munster had sold the naming rights as was intended and budgeted for, then the stadium would have been delivered debt-free.
Teams do indeed queue up to play Munster - where else would you get a big sack of cash to play a second string side in midweek. Never from Leinster I hope. In 2008 Munster spent a million quid on a game against the All Blacks. Leinster spent their money on Rocky Elsom, Isa Nacewa et al.
Playing the u/20s and A games in different parts of the country helps to grow the game more. Outside of the Greater Dublin Area rugby is in a serious battle for players specially at age grade levels with other sports so having these games move around would have the double benefit of boosting the game and the coffers in these areas.
I agree and when have the IRFU done that in recent memory? They took the Under 20's from Dubarry Park in Athlone and I can't remember the last time a Ireland Wolfhound game has being played in Ravenhill or the Sportsground.
Dave Cahill wrote:Munster Rugby were told from the start of the Thomond Park project that the sale of the naming rights to the new Lansdowne Road stadium would involve an exclusivity condition and that their budgeting could not include any international revenue. Munster's deficit on the project came entirely from decisions Munster made. If Munster had sold the naming rights as was intended and budgeted for, then the stadium would have been delivered debt-free.
Teams do indeed queue up to play Munster - where else would you get a big sack of cash to play a second string side in midweek. Never from Leinster I hope. In 2008 Munster spent a million quid on a game against the All Blacks. Leinster spent their money on Rocky Elsom, Isa Nacewa et al.
Know its a depressed market in general now but have Munster been leaned on to sell TP naming rights?
I think location of A games is a moot point when there arent any
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
Playing the u/20s and A games in different parts of the country helps to grow the game more. Outside of the Greater Dublin Area rugby is in a serious battle for players specially at age grade levels with other sports so having these games move around would have the double benefit of boosting the game and the coffers in these areas.
I agree and when have the IRFU done that in recent memory? They took the Under 20's from Dubarry Park in Athlone and I can't remember the last time a Ireland Wolfhound game has being played in Ravenhill or the Sportsground.
The last four games played in Ireland by the Wolfhounds were in Cork, Galway and Belfast (x2).
offshorerules wrote:No doubt your right Janey, but the problem is over that period they have failed to invest in developing players. It is at the end of the day the players that give the performances, that deliver the wins and ultimately keep the crowds coming. It didn't take jig time for attendances to drop in the newly refurbished Thomond when the performances were poor. This in turn lead to the player being booed by their own supporters and fans being turned off coming to games.
I think the economic downturn and mass migration may have had something to do with the attendance numbers. Limerick was particularly hard hit with I think 14% unemployment at one stage. You will have noticed that the Dublin AIL teams started winning stuff packed with Munster born migrants.
Playing the u/20s and A games in different parts of the country helps to grow the game more. Outside of the Greater Dublin Area rugby is in a serious battle for players specially at age grade levels with other sports so having these games move around would have the double benefit of boosting the game and the coffers in these areas.
I agree and when have the IRFU done that in recent memory? They took the Under 20's from Dubarry Park in Athlone and I can't remember the last time a Ireland Wolfhound game has being played in Ravenhill or the Sportsground.
RTE wouldn't agree coverage putside Dublin. Rumour was that PWC were prepared to 'support' RTE cost in Athlone (ref HOME TOWN OF Managing Partner in PWC) but all the Coatches and Management wanted D'brook because of surface and lights and proximity to training base and accomodation. Also, Thomond wanted to charge a fee for access and staffing of close to €100k. D'brook has no charge. Athlone pitch and lights marginal.
BTW, there's zero evidence that Limerick would support Irish U.20. There's lots of evidence from the past (pre-2007) to the contrary.
The lights in Athlone are a major issue for the 6 Nations. I was talking to a cameraman of my acquaintance a few years ago and he said it'd be brighter if everyone held up their phones
I've heard that it's a logistical nightmare/pain in the arse for Leinster to move games outside of Dublin, even just for a once off pre season game, presume it's the same for Ireland at any level.
Dave Cahill wrote:Sorry, I may have misunderstood your question - do you mean do Leinster make money from Ireland games in the Aviva, or from Leinster games?
I meant Leinster won't make money directly from an Ireland game played in Dublin the way Munster would if an international was played in a sold out Thomond.
I didn't have way of getting tickets or anyone to take me to a live game of any variety until I moved to Glasgow for Uni. I always think as many games as possible should be played outwith Dublin as possible.
But I don't think Munster should be treating semi-regular "bonus" games as a sustainable revenue stream. Especially if it is to the detriment of other provinces.
Thanks for clarifying, I read it right the first time okay.
The reality is that crowds for competitive Leinster games are such that its not a realistic option to play anywhere outside of ballsbridge. It has become the same for Ireland really - the smallest crowd Ireland has had this decade (31k against Samoa in 2010 ) in is beyond the reach of any other rugby ground outside of the Aviva. When we had A games we used to take them around the provinces, but crowds were pretty poor - even against the England Saxons.
For sustainable I meant the 2 home knockout games as much. A good year makes it look like something has been fixed.
Leinster and Munster have similar issues with their midweek internationals and the 2 Aviva games.
The extra capacity and attractiveness of those fixtures pulls intermittent fans who might otherwise have gone to non-sellout games. Total revenue & attendance are up (so it’s a price worth paying, for Leinster) but there’s a marginally lower attendance on the least attractive games.
In Thomond, the fight for tickets for touring sides crowds out other fixtures. But because there isn’t the extra capacity (that there is in Aviva) and there is a big fee to the visitors, this is bad business for Munster.
Fans love the touring side so it’s natural not to want to see the problem. The ticket pricing structure of Munster indicate that the best way to translate success (more interest from fans) to better income is to increase attendance at fixtures like Treviso , Edinburgh, Blues etc. by a modest amount each. i.e. more season tickets.
Dave Cahill wrote:Munster Rugby were told from the start of the Thomond Park project that the sale of the naming rights to the new Lansdowne Road stadium would involve an exclusivity condition and that their budgeting could not include any international revenue. Munster's deficit on the project came entirely from decisions Munster made. If Munster had sold the naming rights as was intended and budgeted for, then the stadium would have been delivered debt-free.
Teams do indeed queue up to play Munster - where else would you get a big sack of cash to play a second string side in midweek. Never from Leinster I hope. In 2008 Munster spent a million quid on a game against the All Blacks. Leinster spent their money on Rocky Elsom, Isa Nacewa et al.
Know its a depressed market in general now but have Munster been leaned on to sell TP naming rights?
I think location of A games is a moot point when there arent any
They've been trying for the last couple of years to find a buyer, they've hired a top agency in this field, Onside Consulting, but its hard. The market isn't what it was 10 years ago and selling rights to an existing stadium as opposed to a new build is a lot harder. The value is probably a third to a quarter of what they were a year before completion - the upside is that between the Aviva Stadium, the Kingspan Stadium, a number of GAA grounds and of course Irish Independent Park, selling naming rights is no longer a new thing so the protest level wouldn't be at what it was before
Dave Cahill wrote:Munster Rugby were told from the start of the Thomond Park project that the sale of the naming rights to the new Lansdowne Road stadium would involve an exclusivity condition and that their budgeting could not include any international revenue. Munster's deficit on the project came entirely from decisions Munster made. If Munster had sold the naming rights as was intended and budgeted for, then the stadium would have been delivered debt-free.
Teams do indeed queue up to play Munster - where else would you get a big sack of cash to play a second string side in midweek. Never from Leinster I hope. In 2008 Munster spent a million quid on a game against the All Blacks. Leinster spent their money on Rocky Elsom, Isa Nacewa et al.
Know its a depressed market in general now but have Munster been leaned on to sell TP naming rights?
I think location of A games is a moot point when there arent any
They've been trying for the last couple of years to find a buyer, they've hired a top agency in this field, Onside Consulting, but its hard. The market isn't what it was 10 years ago and selling rights to an existing stadium as opposed to a new build is a lot harder. The value is probably a third to a quarter of what they were a year before completion - the upside is that between the Aviva Stadium, the Kingspan Stadium, a number of GAA grounds and of course Irish Independent Park, selling naming rights is no longer a new thing so the protest level wouldn't be at what it was before
Thanks. I found a few articles on them doing a push in early 2017. Hopefully prestige of the ground would offset the 2nd handness. The other problem is they have to pick a "family friendly" sponsor
Just for comparisons
Kingspan rights are 500k sterling a year
Aviva is €4 million a year
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
