Munster 2017 -2018

[lummix]

They should release keatley not because he's a bad player but he's not a European cup winning out half

Good to see the brave and the faithful going after Keatley again. Classy stuff as always.

Not a Munster fan. Just stating the obvious in that they lack quality. If Munster were allowed to sign one NIQ player this summer. It needs to be a top quality out half. It would improve them immeasurably.

[outcast eddie]

Funny, earlier I was going to post that it was the worst performance by an Irish side in a big game since Argentina at the world up...but then I remembered the Pro12 final. So maybe they do have a mental issue or something wrong with their big game prep.[/quote]

They have a big mental issue when it comes to knock-outs away from Thomond, but they're also more or less performing to the limit of their abilities. They're not that good a team compared to some of the lineups that they face, but they are regularly at the business end of tournaments ... and then their weaknesses at the very highest level get exposed.

European Cup semi-final 2018 [Bordeaux]/23 mins: Racing 21 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/32 mins: Munster 3 - 29 Scarlets
European Cup semi-final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/78 mins: Saracens 26 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2015 [Ravenhill]/31 mins: Munster 3 - 21 Glasgow

The Saracens semi-final is a bit of an outlier because Munster were able to keep the scoreboard in play for quite a long time, despite being really dominated on the pitch. But in the three other games it has been over after half an hour.

To be frank, I'm not sure that there's much more you can ask of them. They've got themselves into back-to-back European semi-finals – that makes them one of the most competitive teams in Europe. I think if you were a Munster fan you'd obviously want them to be more composed in those big knock-out games away from home, because they've choked in them pretty frequently. They're not as bad a side as they've looked in the first half of these games.[/quote]

Seeing a lot of commentary that labels Munster as 'chokers' which is strictly speaking not true. The phenomena of choking in sport is widely acknowledged to be a psychological issue and Keith Earls' recent discussion on the Luke's podcast is evidence that Munster players have access to appropriate expert advice in this regard. I don't think they choked, I think they are a good team that reached a level in the competition that befits their ability. They may get better but I don't see them winning any silverware for some time. Munster fans should take some solace in the knowledge that the team is on an upward trajectory although there is a chance they have just plateaued.

[Dave Cahill]

Yep, Munster are the opposite of chokers. Their mental strength is such that it allows them to overcome deficiencies in their team that would destroy less mentally strong teams (Toulon, ASM for example). At some point that evens out as the quality of opposition increases but it was quite the achievement for that team to get to that stage of the competition.

[OTT]

They should release keatley not because he's a bad player but he's not a European cup winning out half and they go back to him time and again and he fails time and again. To win a champions cup you need a world class no10 so Munster need to get the cheque book out.

The thing I always ask my mates (mostly other Leinster fans) when we are discussing Keatley is do they think we would have won a european cup with him at outhalf and the answer is always no. I don't think he deserves the abuse he gets when Munster lose but I also don't think he deserves the Keatley should be benching for Ireland when he has a good game. I guess that is one of the peculiarities of Munsterfans. They jump hot and cold on people, sure they did it with Axel RIP as a coach and he was a bona fide Munster legend. It is like they can't remember what they had for breakfast.

Keatley was on his bike last year apparently going to France then he got back in the team and had a few good games and got a new contract, I agree with you that that was the time to move on. It won't fix all the problems but it would give them a chance to fix one if he moved on because at the minute they keep going back to him.

Losing away in a european semi is hardly a bad season, we were there ourselves last year, you do feel Munster failed to fire a shot though until it was to late which must be very annoying and certainly not how they would have wanted to go out. Still a decent season though I would think?

[Peg Leg]

Funny, earlier I was going to post that it was the worst performance by an Irish side in a big game since Argentina at the world up...but then I remembered the Pro12 final. So maybe they do have a mental issue or something wrong with their big game prep.

They have a big mental issue when it comes to knock-outs away from Thomond, but they're also more or less performing to the limit of their abilities. They're not that good a team compared to some of the lineups that they face, but they are regularly at the business end of tournaments ... and then their weaknesses at the very highest level get exposed.

European Cup semi-final 2018 [Bordeaux]/23 mins: Racing 21 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/32 mins: Munster 3 - 29 Scarlets
European Cup semi-final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/78 mins: Saracens 26 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2015 [Ravenhill]/31 mins: Munster 3 - 21 Glasgow

The Saracens semi-final is a bit of an outlier because Munster were able to keep the scoreboard in play for quite a long time, despite being really dominated on the pitch. But in the three other games it has been over after half an hour.

To be frank, I'm not sure that there's much more you can ask of them. They've got themselves into back-to-back European semi-finals – that makes them one of the most competitive teams in Europe. I think if you were a Munster fan you'd obviously want them to be more composed in those big knock-out games away from home, because they've choked in them pretty frequently. They're not as bad a side as they've looked in the first half of these games.

I think it's more down to squad depth and the demands of staying involved at the business end of both comps.

How many medical jokers, stop gaps and non marquee signings have we heard of in the last couple of years? To me this was their equivalent to our end of season last year. Badly hit with injury and drained from the need to achieve mental berseker every week to make it this far.
It's taxing and it shows.

[Fireworks]

They should release keatley not because he's a bad player but he's not a European cup winning out half

Good to see the brave and the faithful going after Keatley again. Classy stuff as always.

Not a Munster fan. Just stating the obvious in that they lack quality. If Munster were allowed to sign one NIQ player this summer. It needs to be a top quality out half. It would improve them immeasurably.

Murray was frustrated with the bad ball he was getting and bad ball at 9 does not improve much by the time it gets to 10. One new guy is not going to transform them. It would be a plaster that might look nice for a while. This was not a bad campaign. Any year you reach a semi final is a good year, going further makes it great. With the injuries they had the progress was impressive. They are not far from some silverware but for a good future they need the academy to start producing.

[suisse]

Indeed. Munster fans should be thrilled with their season, instead of aiming both barrels at certain players, Leinster, the D4 media etc. They don't have a great squad of players but they continually overachieve with what they have. Half of their starting XV yesterday is pretty average but they jump up a level continually. They bounced back from 27-3 down when most teams would probably leak 40. Eventually they'll get caught out but from a Leinster POV, I'm really glad they're out. Racing are better than Munster but I would fear a much tougher game against Munster.

POM is talking about painful defeats. Can he look at himself in the mirror today and say he did enough? That he did everything he could? Not another attempt to hammer him but as Munster flirted with disaster after 21 mins, they needed their captain to rally his troops. POM was very subdued all game.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Maybe we should send them Sexton, Carbery, and Ross Byrne. Both Munster tens were awful, JJ isn't the first cousin of a ten and I'll never understand how he/others think that he is.

What specifically makes you think he isn't a 10? I'd say the complete opposite. I think he's a pure 10, and nothing else. He can bring others into play with his passing, he's a running threat himself, and I think he's got good instincts when it comes to kicking in behind. One dodgy pass that put them under extreme pressure aside, I thought he was pretty good today. I'd love to see them back him as first choice for the rest of the season.

I think he's a poor decision maker, everything he does is instinctive as opposed to being organised and part of a plan. Look at how they had no shape when he came on, the main threat they had was Zebo etc running sideways and trying to get outside a tiring Racing. It wasn't just the one pass, there was a heap of mistakes, the most obvious one in terms of him not looking like a ten was the bizarre garryowen that was the wrong option (if you could even call it an option) that went too far, too far infield, and had nobody ready to chase it. It's been ages since I've seen him play well so not sure how good he can be anyway, but I would put him at 12 where I always thought the extra time and having a decision maker beside him helped a lot.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

They have a big mental issue when it comes to knock-outs away from Thomond, but they're also more or less performing to the limit of their abilities. They're not that good a team compared to some of the lineups that they face, but they are regularly at the business end of tournaments ... and then their weaknesses at the very highest level get exposed.

European Cup semi-final 2018 [Bordeaux]/23 mins: Racing 21 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/32 mins: Munster 3 - 29 Scarlets
European Cup semi-final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/78 mins: Saracens 26 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2015 [Ravenhill]/31 mins: Munster 3 - 21 Glasgow

The Saracens semi-final is a bit of an outlier because Munster were able to keep the scoreboard in play for quite a long time, despite being really dominated on the pitch. But in the three other games it has been over after half an hour.

To be frank, I'm not sure that there's much more you can ask of them. They've got themselves into back-to-back European semi-finals – that makes them one of the most competitive teams in Europe. I think if you were a Munster fan you'd obviously want them to be more composed in those big knock-out games away from home, because they've choked in them pretty frequently. They're not as bad a side as they've looked in the first half of these games.

I was thinking about this last night. The way the group finished gave me the impression that they were building to something, and the same goes for the QF. I felt that it didn't matter how they performed, they just needed a win and then the guys were far from 100% fit would be raring to go by yesterday afternoon, but when you really think about it, they didn't exactly dominate what was fairly average group, and were blessed to beat Toulon. So maybe the expectations I had were misplaced.

That said, they just didn't turn up yesterday. They may not have been good enough to win anyway but that doesn't excuse the total lack of physicality, turning down kicks at goal, getting moves wrong etc etc.

[Flash Gordon]

They have a big mental issue when it comes to knock-outs away from Thomond, but they're also more or less performing to the limit of their abilities. They're not that good a team compared to some of the lineups that they face, but they are regularly at the business end of tournaments ... and then their weaknesses at the very highest level get exposed.

European Cup semi-final 2018 [Bordeaux]/23 mins: Racing 21 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/32 mins: Munster 3 - 29 Scarlets
European Cup semi-final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/78 mins: Saracens 26 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2015 [Ravenhill]/31 mins: Munster 3 - 21 Glasgow

The Saracens semi-final is a bit of an outlier because Munster were able to keep the scoreboard in play for quite a long time, despite being really dominated on the pitch. But in the three other games it has been over after half an hour.

To be frank, I'm not sure that there's much more you can ask of them. They've got themselves into back-to-back European semi-finals – that makes them one of the most competitive teams in Europe. I think if you were a Munster fan you'd obviously want them to be more composed in those big knock-out games away from home, because they've choked in them pretty frequently. They're not as bad a side as they've looked in the first half of these games.

I was thinking about this last night. The way the group finished gave me the impression that they were building to something, and the same goes for the QF. I felt that it didn't matter how they performed, they just needed a win and then the guys were far from 100% fit would be raring to go by yesterday afternoon, but when you really think about it, they didn't exactly dominate what was fairly average group, and were blessed to beat Toulon. So maybe the expectations I had were misplaced.

That said, they just didn't turn up yesterday. They may not have been good enough to win anyway but that doesn't excuse the total lack of physicality, turning down kicks at goal, getting moves wrong etc etc.

Yep, I'd agree with that. They won a game they should have lost against Toulon on sheer guts and determination. That seemed sadly lacking in the first half and I've not seen a Munster team make so many errors and make such poor decisions for a long time.

[olaf the fat]

They have a big mental issue when it comes to knock-outs away from Thomond, but they're also more or less performing to the limit of their abilities. They're not that good a team compared to some of the lineups that they face, but they are regularly at the business end of tournaments ... and then their weaknesses at the very highest level get exposed.

European Cup semi-final 2018 [Bordeaux]/23 mins: Racing 21 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/32 mins: Munster 3 - 29 Scarlets
European Cup semi-final 2017 [Lansdowne Rd]/78 mins: Saracens 26 - 3 Munster
Pro 12 final 2015 [Ravenhill]/31 mins: Munster 3 - 21 Glasgow

The Saracens semi-final is a bit of an outlier because Munster were able to keep the scoreboard in play for quite a long time, despite being really dominated on the pitch. But in the three other games it has been over after half an hour.

To be frank, I'm not sure that there's much more you can ask of them. They've got themselves into back-to-back European semi-finals – that makes them one of the most competitive teams in Europe. I think if you were a Munster fan you'd obviously want them to be more composed in those big knock-out games away from home, because they've choked in them pretty frequently. They're not as bad a side as they've looked in the first half of these games.

I was thinking about this last night. The way the group finished gave me the impression that they were building to something, and the same goes for the QF. I felt that it didn't matter how they performed, they just needed a win and then the guys were far from 100% fit would be raring to go by yesterday afternoon, but when you really think about it, they didn't exactly dominate what was fairly average group, and were blessed to beat Toulon. So maybe the expectations I had were misplaced.

That said, they just didn't turn up yesterday. They may not have been good enough to win anyway but that doesn't excuse the total lack of physicality, turning down kicks at goal, getting moves wrong etc etc.

Their "Mini Tour" to SA was lauded as a great build up to the SF by the Munster pundits in the build up yesterday. When you look back at what happened in those 2 games Munster conceded a lot of ground in the first half and fought back to later to win. That works against the Southern Kings and Cheetahs but not against top teams.

[R-Dog]

When you get to the Business end of the cup campaign the matches are the closest thing you get to International matches. Munster simply dont have enough player of that standard

Of their tight 5 only John Ryans 2 sub appearances for 25mins total say any 6 nation action. Compare this to the minutes for Healy/Cronin/Furlong/Mcgrath/Toner/Porter/Ryan.

Similary their midfield of 10/12/13 lack any real top level experience. Think they really need to boost there squad with seasoned International Like they previously did with Howley/Williams/Langan/De Villers.

Its been mentioned plenty the value Fardy brings like Hines/Thorn/Rocky before him

[Lar]

Losing away in a european semi is hardly a bad season, we were there ourselves last year, you do feel Munster failed to fire a shot though until it was to late which must be very annoying and certainly not how they would have wanted to go out. Still a decent season though I would think?

In April 2018 Munster played away in France and lost to their rivals 27-22 on the Sunday of ERC semi-finals week-end.

In April 2017 Leinster played away in France and lost to their rivals 27-22 on the Sunday of ERC semi-finals week-end.

There the similarities end!

I would be proud of my team if I were a Munster fan today because my team, beaten badly in the first half, never gave up and you can't knock a season where you are beaten in an ERC semi-final. But they never looked like winning and need to re-group if they are to challenge to win the Big Cup.

This day last year my abiding memory was of a Leinster team that were slow out of the blocks and conceded too much early on but made an incredibly good fist of and got to within a score whilst there was still time to win it. I sensed the team had an ERC title within them within 2/3 seasons and felt we were close but not quite ready to win the Big Cup then. Thankfully we get a chance only one year later.

[olaf the fat]

When you get to the Business end of the cup campaign the matches are the closest thing you get to International matches. Munster simply dont have enough player of that standard

Of their tight 5 only John Ryans 2 sub appearances for 25mins total say any 6 nation action. Compare this to the minutes for Healy/Cronin/Furlong/Mcgrath/Toner/Porter/Ryan.

Similary their midfield of 10/12/13 lack any real top level experience. Think they really need to boost there squad with seasoned International Like they previously did with Howley/Williams/Langan/De Villers.

Its been mentioned plenty the value Fardy brings like Hines/Thorn/Rocky before him

They have Kleyn, Grobler, Cloete, Taute and to a lesser extent Marshall all key players when fit. To pull in more overseas players will they have to let some go? Not sure how these lads fair out with the 3/5 year prospect rule - Bleyenahal iirc is IQ'd next year

[R-Dog]

When you get to the Business end of the cup campaign the matches are the closest thing you get to International matches. Munster simply dont have enough player of that standard

Of their tight 5 only John Ryans 2 sub appearances for 25mins total say any 6 nation action. Compare this to the minutes for Healy/Cronin/Furlong/Mcgrath/Toner/Porter/Ryan.

Similary their midfield of 10/12/13 lack any real top level experience. Think they really need to boost there squad with seasoned International Like they previously did with Howley/Williams/Langan/De Villers.

Its been mentioned plenty the value Fardy brings like Hines/Thorn/Rocky before him

They have Kleyn, Grobler, Cloete, Taute and to a lesser extent Marshall all key players when fit. To pull in more overseas players will they have to let some go? Not sure how these lads fair out with the 3/5 year prospect rule - Bleyenahal iirc is IQ'd next year

Realise they are limited but think they really need to improve on the quality (easier said than done). Loosing the likes of Ryan to France has had a big effect too

[olaf the fat]

Very little movement of top quality experienced players with a RWC on the horizon, and there are still some sugar daddy club owners willing to spend big.

[dropkick]

I'm not too disappointed. Racing are a very good team and they have the likes of Dan Carter on the bench while Munster have to start Keatley. They blew Clermont away in Clermont so it was really a case of them just being too good imo.


As far as I'm concerned Munster are outsiders for the pro14 so getting to the semi final in Europe is an achievement. A home semi final in the pro14 will be worth a lot of money.


The major problem Munster have is a lack of guile. It's very much bosh rugby and that can only get you so far as Munster have proved time and again. After about 70min they only hand 3 points on the board but got up near the Racing line 6 or 7 occasions. Adding a different attacking dimension is what Van Graan has to do over the summer.

[leinsterforever]

When you get to the Business end of the cup campaign the matches are the closest thing you get to International matches. Munster simply dont have enough player of that standard

Of their tight 5 only John Ryans 2 sub appearances for 25mins total say any 6 nation action. Compare this to the minutes for Healy/Cronin/Furlong/Mcgrath/Toner/Porter/Ryan.

Similary their midfield of 10/12/13 lack any real top level experience. Think they really need to boost there squad with seasoned International Like they previously did with Howley/Williams/Langan/De Villers.

Its been mentioned plenty the value Fardy brings like Hines/Thorn/Rocky before him

I think the rise of Leinster over the last decade has hurt them in this regard. How many caps would Marcus Horan, for example, have if he was around nowadays? He'd hardly get a look in with Cian Healy and Jack McGrath on the scene. He was able to accumulate international experience and take it back to his province, but if they wanted that to happen now, they'd have to produce a player as good as Leinster's options. Hayes would only bench, at best, behind Furlong. You have to respect O'Callaghan, a Lion, but he'd have had a battle on his hands with Toner, and James Ryan is just too good.

I suppose the caps will come for Niall Scannell and Tadhg Beirne, and that'll go some way to addressing the current lack of international experience

[Peg Leg]

Or take it back a step and examine the administration there and its clusterfuckery. The ship is turning slowly but I have read here that there are some promising noises coming from Munsters academy.

[artaneboy]

That's got to be one of the worst Provincial performances for years for the first 60 minutes

Funny, earlier I was going to post that it was the worst performance by an Irish side in a big game since Argentina at the world up...but then I remembered the Pro12 final. So maybe they do have a mental issue or something wrong with their big game prep.

Leinster in the Pro-12 semi final last year v Scarlets?

You have a point...


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