Munster 2017 -2018

[tomthefan]

If Keatley is considered not good enough to win a CC final, then by the same metrics, neither are the likes of Kilcoyne, Archer, Holland, O Donoghue, Arnold, and Wotton.

Some positions are more critical than others.
No team wins the EC with a cr@p OH no more than no team wins the premier league with a cr@p keeper.
(There, that's another one for you, pyorrhea.)

[tomthefan]

I don't mean to say that Keatley is a cr@p OH.
I respect him, he works hard and has made the
best of his abilities and is a decent Pro14 OH.
I just think we need a level higher if we are to win the EC.
I am going to leave it there.

[olaf the fat]

If Keatley is considered not good enough to win a CC final, then by the same metrics, neither are the likes of Kilcoyne, Archer, Holland, O Donoghue, Arnold, and Wotton.

Some positions are more critical than others.
No team wins the EC with a cr@p OH no more than no team wins the premier league with a cr@p keeper.
There, that's another one for you, pyorrhea.

Your right some spots are more critical than others - but you also have to remember its a team sport. Lots of other players in the current squad blow hot and cold but get an easy ride from the fans / media.

If Keatley had a decent pack in front of him maybe he would be viewed differently. Going to the Soccer keeper thing - surely they are only as good as their defenders? put cr@p defenders out and there is very little the keeper can do.

[Laighin Break]

So actually any of Keatley's flaws on Sunday were really the pack's fault because they totally did mess up critical lineouts.

And in fairness to Keats he showed them how to win a critical lineout! They didn't repay the favour though

[CiaranIrl]

Keatley isn't being made a scapegoat. That's something people are dreaming up.
This is a post from cowboy on Munsterfans.

[/i][/quote]

There's page after page after page on Munsterfans where about 70% are laying the blame squarely on his shoulders. Picking one quote doesn't tell you anything. One person on there even said, "Keatley isn't even AIL level" and that he should be cut entirely.

[tomthefan]

There's page after page after page on Munsterfans where about 70% are laying the blame squarely on his shoulders. Picking one quote doesn't tell you anything. One person on there even said, "Keatley isn't even AIL level" and that he should be cut entirely.

There is quite a lot of debate on the topic with people on both sides and a bit of hyperbole is bound to creep in, in that situation.
Also it's not just the merits or demerits of one player that are being discussed.
I could write an essay on the way the moderators have turned Munsterfans into an echo chamber for certain views but i don't think
it applies in this case

[blockhead]

Munster V Ulster teams:

Munster: Stephen Fitzgerald; Calvin Nash, Sammy Arnold, Dan Goggin, Darren Sweetnam; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Mike Sherry (C), Brian Scott; Gerbrandt Grobler, Darren O’Shea; Dave O’Callaghan, Conor Oliver, Robin Copeland.
Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Jeremy Loughman, Stephen Archer, Jean Kleyn, Jack O’Donoghue, James Hart, Bill Johnston, Shane Daly.

(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, J Stockdale, J McPhillips, D Shanahan;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Kane, A O’Connor, I Henderson, C Ross, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, T O’Toole, K Treadwell, C Henry, P Marshall, A Curtis, T Bowe.

[RAILWAY1]

Unfortunately you will always get a number of a** holes when you have a large number following a team who will turn their disappointment of a terrible result into a personal attack on individual players. All players are human and as such sometimes have cr@p games but no player goes out to play bad. Before these keyboard warriors launch their attacks they should consider all of those in the firing line including players families.
I sometimes wonder how many of these keyboard warriors have had an involvement with rugby at any level over the years because if the had they would better understand how the players feel after a bad game without their advice

[tomthefan]

Unfortunately you will always get a number of a** holes when you have a large number following a team who will turn their disappointment of a terrible result into a personal attack on individual players. All players are human and as such sometimes have cr@p games but no player goes out to play bad. Before these keyboard warriors launch their attacks they should consider all of those in the firing line including players families.
I sometimes wonder how many of these keyboard warriors have had an involvement with rugby at any level over the years because if the had they would better understand how the players feel after a bad game without their advice

I don't consider that expressing the opinion that a player's ability is not up to a certain level, is a personal attack.

[kermischocolate]

Munster V Ulster teams:

Munster: Stephen Fitzgerald; Calvin Nash, Sammy Arnold, Dan Goggin, Darren Sweetnam; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Mike Sherry (C), Brian Scott; Gerbrandt Grobler, Darren O’Shea; Dave O’Callaghan, Conor Oliver, Robin Copeland.
Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Jeremy Loughman, Stephen Archer, Jean Kleyn, Jack O’Donoghue, James Hart, Bill Johnston, Shane Daly.

(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, J Stockdale, J McPhillips, D Shanahan;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Kane, A O’Connor, I Henderson, C Ross, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, T O’Toole, K Treadwell, C Henry, P Marshall, A Curtis, T Bowe.

Interesting teams.

[blockhead]

Gobbler off to Gloucester.
Van Gramm aint happy.

[lummix]

Gobbler off to Gloucester.
Van Gramm aint happy.

Watching him the last few weeks I thought he's been very good and he looks like he could have forced his way into the starting line up next season.
The IRFU were always getting rid of him though, anything that brings any bad press is extremely unpalatable for them at the minute.
I wouldn't have signed him based on his drug suspension but this is a case of slamming the door after the horse has bolted.

[leinsterforever]

Obviously I don't know too much about their respective characters and how they interact with other players and what not, but, based on play alone, I'm genuinely mystified as to how Peter O'Mahony gets selected as first choice blindside over Dave O'Callaghan

[BlueBlue]

I don't get it. Munster fans should be so appreciative of the players' efforts. They made it to a European semi final with that team. It was an extraordinary achievement. If they take off the red blinkers for a moment, they'll notice that a team comprising of Alex Wooton, Sam Arnold, Ian Keatley, JOD, Billy Holland, Jean Kleyn and Stephen Archer have no business being semi final players. 4 of their starting XV had some game time in the Grand Slam campaign. Leinster had more in the front 5 alone. This was the biggest game of their season. They should be proud of getting this far with that collection of players.

As for signing players. Don't Munster sign enough short term deals? They're producing nothing for Ireland. At least Ulster have given us Henderson and Stockdale recently. Connacht gave us Henshaw. They shouldn't be allowed to keep going back to SA when they can't get anyone after 2012 to be a regular in the Irish match day squad.

Its a miracle even when they lose !

[Laighin Break]

Interesting that JJ Hanrahan is starting the qualifier tomorrow.

[janeymac08]

I don't get it. Munster fans should be so appreciative of the players' efforts. They made it to a European semi final with that team. It was an extraordinary achievement. If they take off the red blinkers for a moment, they'll notice that a team comprising of Alex Wooton, Sam Arnold, Ian Keatley, JOD, Billy Holland, Jean Kleyn and Stephen Archer have no business being semi final players. 4 of their starting XV had some game time in the Grand Slam campaign. Leinster had more in the front 5 alone. This was the biggest game of their season. They should be proud of getting this far with that collection of players.

As for signing players. Don't Munster sign enough short term deals? They're producing nothing for Ireland. At least Ulster have given us Henderson and Stockdale recently. Connacht gave us Henshaw. They shouldn't be allowed to keep going back to SA when they can't get anyone after 2012 to be a regular in the Irish match day squad.

Munster have had a few injuries to key people - Munster were missing Tyler, having lost Johnny Holland as well to injury. That can put a serious dent in your prospects in a key position. Tommy O'Donnell / Chris Cloete were also huge losses.

I think Jean Kleyn is a much better player than you give him credit for. Alex Wooton and Sam are young and inexperienced. They are on a serious learning curve at the moment.

I think a lot of the recruitment being done now is down to the change from 3 to 5 year residency ruling - that won't be such an attractive option in future.

[TerenureJim]

What was with GT's weird article in yesterday's IT on why there'd be such a poor crowd and also why was there such a poor crowd? If tickets aren't shifting get free tickets to schools and fill the terraces, you never know a few freebies might get you some repeat business.

[mildlyinterested]

What was with GT's weird article in yesterday's IT on why there'd be such a poor crowd and also why was there such a poor crowd? If tickets aren't shifting get free tickets to schools and fill the terraces, you never know a few freebies might get you some repeat business.

they were giving free tickets to kids as it was.

[mildlyinterested]

.
I think a lot of the recruitment being done now is down to the change from 3 to 5 year residency ruling - that won't be such an attractive option in future.

aka munster cant or wont develop homegrown players so are going to recruit 18 year old south africans and turn them into "munster men"

[mildlyinterested]

jean kleyn is quality.. he isnt in james ryans league but who is.