Pro 14 - General Thread

[Ruckedtobits]

BTW, very, very suspicious of no mention of the folding stuff. Word in SA media land and advertising is that Supersport are paying $60m for 6 year rights. Firstly it means it's a six-year experiment and secondly, that there is more to come from European broadcasters. Sky contract with Pro12 finishes next year so have they novated their worldwide rights to Supersport?

They never mention money but Anayi did say today that the pro12 was encouraged to expand by sponsors and broadcasters.

Were they also encouraged to ignore / abuse one of their most important group of stakeholders, STH's? 10 home games rather than 11 is a 10% reduction.

Like the biscuit and bar makers, the content has been reduced without any compensation in price. Not good enough, certainly not when this League needs all possible support to launch this new competition.

Leinster Rugby off-field management need to remember that Season Ticket holders are not fools, so don't treat them like mugs. Remember, they're the ones that you need to keep loyal when you start your renovation / development, possibly through next season.

[deco]

Seen on twitter earlier:

"My main worry with this format is fans. Travelling to places 12 hours away full of crime & poverty. Just hope SA fans stay safe in Newport."

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Can't say I get the anger with LR about this. They're just reacting to the situation and I'm not really sure what people expect. The obvious answer to that is a refund,but has anyone who's up in arms about this really bought their season ticket based on the average price per game? Does one game really make much of a difference?

I'm not sure what the total refund would be, but do you really want that money gone from Leinster's budget? Fast forward to January/February when Ringrose is saying that he grew up wanting to be Mark McCall and Leinster are some way short of offering the deal that he wants...

LR are in a tough position and have done something to try and rectify it. It's not perfect, and perhaps they could offer something more for the 18/19 season, but for now I think they've done the best they can. It's the Pro12 that people should be angry with for putting the clubs/supporters in this situation, it's not like LR wanted this.

[blaker]

What are people up in arms about here? The marginal charge averaged out over 10 versus 11 games? I emigrated 7 years ago and haven't had a season ticket since then - what's the "hit"?
Somebody above queried whether people had honestly bought on the basis of the 11 game per game average? If so fair enough but come on. I fully accept that the assumption on purchase was 11 games (even though this has been all but confirmed for weeks.....) and strictly speaking you're basis of purchase has changed but I get the feeling of outrage for outrage sakes here.

What more could they have done? FWIW the annual "my seat is not strictly identical" in the AVIVA thing is similar.

[deco]

^^^
This.
The faux outrage is as pathetic as it was predictable. LR have a refund option for those who wish too avail of it.

[rooster]

The season ticket thing will be interesting from this season going forwards, next year it will be known that sides may have 10 or 11 home matches and it will be interesting to see how they handle it

[nc6000]

Based on our attendances over the last couple of seasons we have thousands of season ticket holders who already miss plenty of games. What difference does one game over two seasons make? I wonder how many people will request a refund.

I'm more concerned that we still don't have a single fixture confirmed yet. Assuming that the fixtures are actually released next week then that's only about 3 weeks notice of who we play in our first game and where it's on. Not much time to make any arrangements if it's an away game.

[cormac]

Based on our attendances over the last couple of seasons we have thousands of season ticket holders who already miss plenty of games. What difference does one game over two seasons make? I wonder how many people will request a refund.

I'm more concerned that we still don't have a single fixture confirmed yet. Assuming that the fixtures are actually released next week then that's only about 3 weeks notice of who we play in our first game and where it's on. Not much time to make any arrangements if it's an away game.

I'm pretty sure the teams already know the fixtures for each weekend, it's just the ko times that need to be agreed with broadcasters.

[nc6000]

Based on our attendances over the last couple of seasons we have thousands of season ticket holders who already miss plenty of games. What difference does one game over two seasons make? I wonder how many people will request a refund.

I'm more concerned that we still don't have a single fixture confirmed yet. Assuming that the fixtures are actually released next week then that's only about 3 weeks notice of who we play in our first game and where it's on. Not much time to make any arrangements if it's an away game.

I'm pretty sure the teams already know the fixtures for each weekend, it's just the ko times that need to be agreed with broadcasters.

I'm sure the teams do know. I meant that as fans we don't know anything yet. We could be away in Edinburgh or Treviso for example, what if people want to go to the game? What if it's against Scarlets in the RDS and they have fans who might want to travel?

[rooster]

Based on our attendances over the last couple of seasons we have thousands of season ticket holders who already miss plenty of games. What difference does one game over two seasons make? I wonder how many people will request a refund.

I'm more concerned that we still don't have a single fixture confirmed yet. Assuming that the fixtures are actually released next week then that's only about 3 weeks notice of who we play in our first game and where it's on. Not much time to make any arrangements if it's an away game.

I'm pretty sure the teams already know the fixtures for each weekend, it's just the ko times that need to be agreed with broadcasters.

I'm sure the teams do know. I meant that as fans we don't know anything yet. We could be away in Edinburgh or Treviso for example, what if people want to go to the game? What if it's against Scarlets in the RDS and they have fans who might want to travel?

Wouldn't doubt it, I was checking travel to Bloemfontein a few weeks ago on a few random weekends and there was one in particular that stood out as far more expensive and accommodation problems than the week before and week after, I checked the normal "what's on" guides and found nothing of interest so assume it is a rugby weekend or else Ollie le Roux is holding a big BBQ !

[Flash Gordon]

The IRFU and the provincial system is currently losing money which isn't sustainable. We are also increasingly uncompetitive vs the English and French clubs who have budgets that are way ahead of what we can spend. The IRFU and the provinces are moving to fix that by expanding Pro rugby. Personally I think the addition of the South Africans makes the league more interesting and appealing and will raise the standard over time. This is fundamentally a good thing for Leinster. I understand that people may feel aggrieved at seeing one less game but measuring that one less game against the 5-10 year future it's an annoyance vs a fundamental change in our income and ability to compete.

[Dave Cahill]

We are also increasingly uncompetitive vs the English and French clubs who have budgets that are way ahead of what we can spend.

Leinster vs The English 2016-17

129 - 40 (p4 w4)

Leinster vs The French 2016-17

155 - 91 (p5 w2 l2 d1)

When you consider the size of the budgets involved, particularly those of Montpellier and ASM and what they get from it compared to us, I think we're doing okay. Last years team wasn't even particularly special - it was very callow and had a lot of injuries to key players that we didn't need to spend 10 million to replace!

The perception that the Pro14 is of a lower standard than the Aviva Premiership or the Top14 simply doesn't hold water. It would struggle to hold jelly quite frankly because the argument is ridddled with holes.

[johng]

Any possibility that the ARU legal problems cutting the Rebels or the Force could result in the Sharks joining the Pro14 (15..16..17..) for 2018/9?

They are rumoured to fancy heading up here. If the ARU can't cut it...(Them) then the sharks move would solve their problem.

[lotmc]

Well done to all in Pro12 / Leinster Rugby (and all other teams) for getting this over the line. It must have been a massive challenge to cross the t's and dot the i's in time for the new season, and they seem to have done it.

I fully understand why they needed to do it, as the alternative was to see the tournament gradually become a poor relation to the English / French tournaments, just like FAI soccer. Even with this change, that risk has not gone away, but the new structure gives a better opportunity to compete for talent, supporters, airtime, sponsorship, etc.

My only concern is that the SA teams may be depleted and just not good enough - the tournament needs them to compete well at the upper end of the table(s).

[wixfjord]

A Saffer journo on OTB last night mentioned that Lions and Bulls were 'very interested' in coming north too, before the Super Rugby stuff was sorted.

Could we see a league with a full SAF contingent and a US/Canada team also in the next 10 years?

I'm not a fan of this change from a league quality standpoint, as I believe Cheetahs and Kings will be mid table fodder at best. However, get Lions, Sharks, Stormers and Bulls involved and it's a whole new story.

[Peg Leg]

We are also increasingly uncompetitive vs the English and French clubs who have budgets that are way ahead of what we can spend.

Leinster vs The English 2016-17

129 - 40 (p4 w4)

Leinster vs The French 2016-17

155 - 91 (p5 w2 l2 d1)

When you consider the size of the budgets involved, particularly those of Montpellier and ASM and what they get from it compared to us, I think we're doing okay. Last years team wasn't even particularly special - it was very callow and had a lot of injuries to key players that we didn't need to spend 10 million to replace!

The perception that the Pro14 is of a lower standard than the Aviva Premiership or the Top14 simply doesn't hold water. It would struggle to hold jelly quite frankly because the argument is ridddled with holes.

This, very much this. But then it depends what press outlet you rely on for your info.

[simonokeeffe]

The more saffers the less we need or want the yanks

[joooooe]

BTW, very, very suspicious of no mention of the folding stuff. Word in SA media land and advertising is that Supersport are paying $60m for 6 year rights. Firstly it means it's a six-year experiment and secondly, that there is more to come from European broadcasters. Sky contract with Pro12 finishes next year so have they novated their worldwide rights to Supersport?

They never mention money but Anayi did say today that the pro12 was encouraged to expand by sponsors and broadcasters.

Were they also encouraged to ignore / abuse one of their most important group of stakeholders, STH's? 10 home games rather than 11 is a 10% reduction.

Like the biscuit and bar makers, the content has been reduced without any compensation in price. Not good enough, certainly not when this League needs all possible support to launch this new competition.

Leinster Rugby off-field management need to remember that Season Ticket holders are not fools, so don't treat them like mugs. Remember, they're the ones that you need to keep loyal when you start your renovation / development, possibly through next season.

It's actually a 9.1% reduction.
I'll get my coat.

[blockhead]

The "SA teams may play some home games in engerland" notion is gone now? Will all their home games be in SA?
Nervous but also excited for the seasons ahead. Something needed to be done.

[artaneboy]

We are also increasingly uncompetitive vs the English and French clubs who have budgets that are way ahead of what we can spend.

Leinster vs The English 2016-17

129 - 40 (p4 w4)

Leinster vs The French 2016-17

155 - 91 (p5 w2 l2 d1)

When you consider the size of the budgets involved, particularly those of Montpellier and ASM and what they get from it compared to us, I think we're doing okay. Last years team wasn't even particularly special - it was very callow and had a lot of injuries to key players that we didn't need to spend 10 million to replace!

The perception that the Pro14 is of a lower standard than the Aviva Premiership or the Top14 simply doesn't hold water. It would struggle to hold jelly quite frankly because the argument is ridddled with holes.

Was the Pro 12 financially sustainable? That's what the argument is about. No playing standards.

I've defended the quality of the Pro 12 often enough relative to the Aviva or T14. Honestly I'd say that the Pro 12 standard at the top third is on a par with both, the middle third is weaker abs the bottom third is similarly deficient. But it doesn't really matter, as the income the French and English have from their TV deals and the savings on costs (travel, etc) from their 'one territory' structure means we are always disadvantaged without making a quantum jump in the strategic reach of our appeal.

The inclusion of the two Saffers teams offers the start of an opportunity to develop that reach. If the new Pro 14 is successful in both sporting and financial terms, other SA clubs may look to join. That combined with a second division of North American, emerging European and the weaker members of the current league will provide the critical mass to compete and grow the game in the Celtic League countries.

The whining and pedantry in what is understandably, an emerging deal is dreary. Wait until we see the details. Yo my mind; so far- so good!


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