Pro 14 - General Thread

neill_m · Post by **neill_m** » May 13th, 2018, 7:40 pm

enby wrote:anyone get their tickets for the final in the post from Ticketmaster yet??

Tickets arrived in the post on Saturday.

CiaranIrl · Post by **CiaranIrl** » May 13th, 2018, 8:19 pm

neill_m wrote:
enby wrote:anyone get their tickets for the final in the post from Ticketmaster yet??
Came on Saturday.

That's one way to describe it.

LeRouxIsPHat · Post by **LeRouxIsPHat** » May 13th, 2018, 8:43 pm

fourthirtythree · Post by **fourthirtythree** » May 13th, 2018, 10:16 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
neill_m wrote:
enby wrote:anyone get their tickets for the final in the post from Ticketmaster yet??
Came on Saturday.
That's one way to describe it.

I think we are all hoping we didn't shoot our wad on Saturday...

neill_m · Post by **neill_m** » May 13th, 2018, 10:26 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
neill_m wrote:
enby wrote:anyone get their tickets for the final in the post from Ticketmaster yet??
Came on Saturday.
That's one way to describe it.

Didn’t expect that to be fair.

blockhead · Post by **blockhead** » May 14th, 2018, 9:13 am

Cheetahs boss: South Africa's rugby future is in the northern hemisphere

Cheetahs CEO Harold Verster is confident that South African rugby’s best move would be to leave SANZAAR and head to Europe.

“There’s a future for South African rugby in the northern hemisphere, and it doesn’t have to be the Super Rugby sides. It’s a brilliant strategic move by (SA Rugby chief executive) Jurie Roux. This is an investment that will pay off in about three years,” Verster told Sport24.

“If we can get involved in the European Rugby Champions Cup, we’ll be involved in something even bigger than Super Rugby.”

“The figures are sensitive and confidential, but the money is bigger than Super Rugby’s by a country mile.”

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos has been forced to defend the strength of South Africa’s position in Super Rugby, following reports that more sides – including the Lions, Sharks and Stormers – could follow the Super Rugby castoff Cheetahs and Kings to the PRO14.

The Cheetahs lost their quarterfinal against the Scarlets last week, capping a successful 12-win first season – one less win than they managed over their last three seasons of Super Rugby.

“The PRO14 overlaps with the Currie Cup and we don’t have our home derbies like we did in Super Rugby,” said Verster.

“We miss our derbies, but not the travel and, for some reason, their culture of rugby is similar to ours. It’s a fantastic competition to be involved in.”

For Verster’s side to get involved in the European Champions Cup, South Africa Rugby would have to become a full partner of the PRO14, a partnership Verster is urging the union to consider.

What are the chances of SA sides being allowed into the Heino?

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » May 14th, 2018, 9:23 am

blockhead wrote:
Cheetahs boss: South Africa's rugby future is in the northern hemisphere

Cheetahs CEO Harold Verster is confident that South African rugby’s best move would be to leave SANZAAR and head to Europe.

“There’s a future for South African rugby in the northern hemisphere, and it doesn’t have to be the Super Rugby sides. It’s a brilliant strategic move by (SA Rugby chief executive) Jurie Roux. This is an investment that will pay off in about three years,” Verster told Sport24.

“If we can get involved in the European Rugby Champions Cup, we’ll be involved in something even bigger than Super Rugby.”

“The figures are sensitive and confidential, but the money is bigger than Super Rugby’s by a country mile.”

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos has been forced to defend the strength of South Africa’s position in Super Rugby, following reports that more sides – including the Lions, Sharks and Stormers – could follow the Super Rugby castoff Cheetahs and Kings to the PRO14.

The Cheetahs lost their quarterfinal against the Scarlets last week, capping a successful 12-win first season – one less win than they managed over their last three seasons of Super Rugby.

“The PRO14 overlaps with the Currie Cup and we don’t have our home derbies like we did in Super Rugby,” said Verster.

“We miss our derbies, but not the travel and, for some reason, their culture of rugby is similar to ours. It’s a fantastic competition to be involved in.”

For Verster’s side to get involved in the European Champions Cup, South Africa Rugby would have to become a full partner of the PRO14, a partnership Verster is urging the union to consider.
What are the chances of SA sides being allowed into the Heino?

Why do I think they can qualify thru the Pro14 from 2020 on?
The Pro14 could easily go to a 2 conference Pro16 with virtually no fixture disruption - room for two more SA teams.

neill_m · Post by **neill_m** » May 14th, 2018, 9:44 am

Oldschool wrote:
blockhead wrote:
Cheetahs boss: South Africa's rugby future is in the northern hemisphere

Cheetahs CEO Harold Verster is confident that South African rugby’s best move would be to leave SANZAAR and head to Europe.

“There’s a future for South African rugby in the northern hemisphere, and it doesn’t have to be the Super Rugby sides. It’s a brilliant strategic move by (SA Rugby chief executive) Jurie Roux. This is an investment that will pay off in about three years,” Verster told Sport24.

“If we can get involved in the European Rugby Champions Cup, we’ll be involved in something even bigger than Super Rugby.”

“The figures are sensitive and confidential, but the money is bigger than Super Rugby’s by a country mile.”

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos has been forced to defend the strength of South Africa’s position in Super Rugby, following reports that more sides – including the Lions, Sharks and Stormers – could follow the Super Rugby castoff Cheetahs and Kings to the PRO14.

The Cheetahs lost their quarterfinal against the Scarlets last week, capping a successful 12-win first season – one less win than they managed over their last three seasons of Super Rugby.

“The PRO14 overlaps with the Currie Cup and we don’t have our home derbies like we did in Super Rugby,” said Verster.

“We miss our derbies, but not the travel and, for some reason, their culture of rugby is similar to ours. It’s a fantastic competition to be involved in.”

For Verster’s side to get involved in the European Champions Cup, South Africa Rugby would have to become a full partner of the PRO14, a partnership Verster is urging the union to consider.
What are the chances of SA sides being allowed into the Heino?
Why do I think they can qualify thru the Pro14 from 2020 on?
The Pro14 could easily go to a 2 conference Pro16 with virtually no fixture disruption - room for two more SA teams.

Think I read the 2020 thing in a recent article. It is the earliest it can happen (I think).

dropkick · Post by **dropkick** » May 15th, 2018, 1:07 pm

I'd say the south Africans will be allowed enter the champions cup when the next contract is signed. The English clubs need the money as much as pro14 sides do and the South Africans bring money with them.

Allowing them into the champions cup will make the prospect of joining the pro14 more appealing to South Africans.

I think the pro14 is starting to really grow now. The Italian improvement has played a part in that this season. We've only scratched the surface of the potential Italian market so it should be interesting to follow that in the coming years.

On a different topic, the pro14 should also be keeping in touch with the Germans and Spanish. The goal should be eventually to morph into a pan European competition. That might take a long time but it should be the ultimate goal.

The proposed U23 development league can be used as a platform for German, Spanish etc teams to bridge the (massive) gap between their standard and pro14 standard.

neiliog93 · Post by **neiliog93** » May 15th, 2018, 2:16 pm

Long-term it looks like we might get 4-6 South African teams and c.4 North American teams. Whether they ever manage to penetrate into Portugal, Spain, Germany or Georgia is another thing (Russia and Romania won't happen because they already have professional leagues).

Ruckedtobits · Post by **Ruckedtobits** » May 15th, 2018, 3:25 pm

neiliog93 wrote:Long-term it looks like we might get 4-6 South African teams and c.4 North American teams. Whether they ever manage to penetrate into Portugal, Spain, Germany or Georgia is another thing (Russia and Romania won't happen because they already have professional leagues).

I'd veto the N. American connection for decades, because:

A. Set-up costs for Pro Rugby with no player transfer values and no 'Sugar Daddies'.
B. Neither spectator, nor TV, market for rugby has matured.
C. Travel difficulties - cost and time-difference (W Coast) and Visa restrictions.
D. US market eats start-ups in sports.

Look to SA, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Germany and Spain. All have a rugby base and some a rugby heritage. All are very good followers of 'National' teams. All have enough AB population segments with enough money to enjoy the rugby social backdrop, i.e. potential travellers to overnight on big away games.

IMO, Pro14 could have an integrated competition across 3 / Conferences within a decade, if developed with a 10 year strategy. European travel capacity is extensive and everyone of these countries have eccellent travel links to SA.

LeRouxIsPHat · Post by **LeRouxIsPHat** » May 15th, 2018, 3:35 pm

Tbh I still don't have any interest in the SA teams being apart of the league never mind anyone from the US, but I do think there's a fairly obvious way of creating a US team which would be very...American.

See how their league plays out over the next three years or so, and if it does take off to some extent, have sort of an All Star team that plays out of New York or somewhere like that after the regular season ends. Obviously there's lots of other things to consider, but I'd say that'd be feasible.

Ruckedtobits · Post by **Ruckedtobits** » May 15th, 2018, 5:19 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Tbh I still don't have any interest in the SA teams being apart of the league never mind anyone from the US, but I do think there's a fairly obvious way of creating a US team which would be very...American.

See how their league plays out over the next three years or so, and if it does take off to some extent, have sort of an All Star team that plays out of New York or somewhere like that after the regular season ends. Obviously there's lots of other things to consider, but I'd say that'd be feasible.

Was of the same view 12 months ago. Now, with the advent of their TV money and audience and the potential calibre of their teams, this may be the only way that our league can defend itself against the cheque-books of the Top 14 and Premiership.

Ultimately, if our player incomes are not broadly comparable, we could lose 20 or 30 players, say ranked 3rd or 4th on an Irish depth chart, to play in those leagues. Our Provinces could not tolerate such losses as our top 30 players are available for 10 or less Provincial games per seaso., outside the knock-outs. We need Pro14 to be economically successful in order to also be successful in the standard of play.

The structure that has international rugby at the top of the tree isn't going to alter anytime soon as NZ, England and Ireland are dependent on this reality. The next round of TV contracts will almost certainly see the Top14 contract reduce by anything up to 25%. At that point the FFR will "instruct" the LNR to ensure that the Clubs give absolute priority to the National Team again (in preparation for hosting RWC23) and the Top14 will cease to be the major recruiter of overseas players.

The Pro14 has to grow and thrive to protect its participants till then.

neiliog93 · Post by **neiliog93** » May 15th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Rugby is the fastest growing sport in the US, don't forget. Huge investment going on from their union at all levels. You could do a sort of US-Sunwolves side which is effectively made up of a lot of their national team players.

blockhead · Post by **blockhead** » May 15th, 2018, 8:04 pm

Pro14/15/16 has enough on its plate without getting into bed with the yanks. Let them prove they have a viable product or at least obvious potential. Keep it at 14 too, unless one of the bigger SA teams come on board. And any scenario that introduces relegation is no no.

dropkick · Post by **dropkick** » May 15th, 2018, 11:01 pm

I don't think the pro14 could link up with America and south Africa. Either go one direction or the other, not both. The danger is it would start to resemble super rugby with teams dotted around the globe.

Linking up with US rugby is also risky. The pro14 could help build it up then when/if the money the money starts to flow the Americans could just decide to cut ties with the pro14. Traditionally they like to do things their own way and I saw a bit of that on another forum where the posters want the pro14 to "f##k off" and stay out of America.

On another note I would like to see them come up with a proper name for the league. Pro12/14/16 etc doesn't really mean anything. The 'celtic' league ment something and you'll still hear people referring to it by that name these days. It can't be called that now but surely they can come up with something decent.

blockhead · Post by **blockhead** » May 15th, 2018, 11:09 pm

The Longitude League

TerenureJim · Post by **TerenureJim** » May 15th, 2018, 11:49 pm

The Justice League? Think of the franchise tie ins

olaf the fat · Post by **olaf the fat** » May 16th, 2018, 9:19 am

TerenureJim wrote:The Justice League? Think of the franchise tie ins

Think the Boks already tried to claim that one on behalf of Bakkies

TerenureJim · Post by **TerenureJim** » May 17th, 2018, 12:01 am

olaf the fat wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:The Justice League? Think of the franchise tie ins
Think the Boks already tried to claim that one on behalf of Bakkies

He's a bit more Legion of Doom to be honest

Babbling 'brook