Pro 14 - General Thread

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby johng » December 26th, 2019, 8:38 pm

Scarlets 44 ospreys 0. And ospreys were the highest placed region last season
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby cormac » December 26th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Ospreys were lucky to get nil. Scarlets are the only one of the Welsh teams who are anywhere near where they should be. Watched a good bit of the Cardiff v Dragons match earlier and it was a really poor standard.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby johng » December 26th, 2019, 9:48 pm

I fell asleep about 20 mins into the Scarlets game. It was 3 nil. Was 30 nil when I woke up
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby IanD » December 27th, 2019, 12:29 pm

Commentary said that Ospreys had 16 players out injured.

Might explain poor performance
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby neill_m » December 31st, 2019, 11:01 am

Rhys Webb leaving Toulon and has rejoined the Ospreys on a 2 year deal, starting next season.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby blockhead » December 31st, 2019, 3:43 pm

The Guinness PRO14 Team of the Decade: Official
15 Isa Nacewa, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 John Muldoon, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 John Barclay, 5 Alun Wyn Jones, 4 Leone Nakarawa, 3 John Afoa, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Gethin Jenkins
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby blockhead » December 31st, 2019, 11:54 pm

Larmour's try v Munster voted try of the decade by Pro14.
:happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby ronk » January 1st, 2020, 12:16 am

blockhead wrote:The Guinness PRO14 Team of the Decade: Official
15 Isa Nacewa, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 John Muldoon, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 John Barclay, 5 Alun Wyn Jones, 4 Leone Nakarawa, 3 John Afoa, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Gethin Jenkins


Shane Williams barely played in the last 10 years.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby Logorrhea » January 1st, 2020, 12:22 am

blockhead wrote:Larmour's try v Munster voted try of the decade by Pro14.
:happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

Happy New Year to everyone btw.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqjetoF55NE
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 1st, 2020, 8:00 am

Logorrhea wrote:
blockhead wrote:Larmour's try v Munster voted try of the decade by Pro14.
:happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

Happy New Year to everyone btw.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqjetoF55NE


And to think that we might have the opportunity to watch tries like that for the next decade!
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby blockhead » January 1st, 2020, 11:21 pm

Leone Nakarawa joins Glasgow for the rest of the season. Johnny Gray off to Exeter for next season.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby paddyor » January 2nd, 2020, 12:20 am

Johnny Gray to Exeter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/50968610

I rate him, he’s a workhorse and he does the stuff is supposed to do in the set piece. But he doesn’t really dominate teams in any facet of his game and I think he’s hit his ceiling.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby ronk » January 2nd, 2020, 2:52 pm

paddyor wrote:Johnny Gray to Exeter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/50968610

I rate him, he’s a workhorse and he does the stuff is supposed to do in the set piece. But he doesn’t really dominate teams in any facet of his game and I think he’s hit his ceiling.


He can tackle teams to a standstill. That can be dominant.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby domhnallj » January 2nd, 2020, 4:37 pm

[quote="paddyor"]Johnny Gray to Exeter


Did he get all misty eyed about the Exeter countryside?
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby wixfjord » January 3rd, 2020, 3:02 pm

ROG on the differences between Top and Pro 14.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 73324.html

I don’t think Irish rugby people get relegation and its consequences, certainly the emotional and psychological side of the subject, how it can get into your gut. It’s only when I moved from Ireland to France that I really began to grasp it.

The Top 14 is a results-driven league, and everything that such entails. There’s little by way of a results imperative in the Pro14, for instance. It’s about performance and getting your minutes in but over here, people would bite your arm off for a 6-3 win.

In Ireland, players get ready for test games by playing European Cup six times a season.

In England and France, the players play in hugely competitive domestic leagues every week, then they attack Europe and represent their country.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby hugonaut » January 3rd, 2020, 3:51 pm

wixfjord wrote:ROG on the differences between Top and Pro 14.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 73324.html

I don’t think Irish rugby people get relegation and its consequences, certainly the emotional and psychological side of the subject, how it can get into your gut. It’s only when I moved from Ireland to France that I really began to grasp it.

The Top 14 is a results-driven league, and everything that such entails. There’s little by way of a results imperative in the Pro14, for instance. It’s about performance and getting your minutes in but over here, people would bite your arm off for a 6-3 win.

In Ireland, players get ready for test games by playing European Cup six times a season.

In England and France, the players play in hugely competitive domestic leagues every week, then they attack Europe and represent their country.


I read that article earlier and a few things struck me about it: firstly, France haven't won the Six Nations in a decade and were knocked out in the QFs of the last two World Cups – their extremely competitive league is doing absolutely f*cking nothing for them internationally.

They've got 30 professional teams [14 in Top 14, 16 in ProD2] and a phenomenal rugby culture in a wealthy, single landmass country of a manageable size. By the size of their rugby-playing population, their infrastructure and wealth, they should rarely finish outside the top two of the Six Nations and never finish in the bottom half. They should always be in the top four teams in the world.

Secondly, the last four RWCs [won by SA, NZ, NZ, SA respectively] have been won by countries whose top level tournament [Super Rugby] doesn't feature promotion and relegation.

The Japanese world cup effort was viewed as a great success, and most of their players didn't play any significant competitive rugby over the course of the season. They had something like 200 training days. Shota Horie played in 3 games [1+2] for the Sunwolves in 2019, his only non-international rugby; Michael Leitch didn't play any.

I like ROG, but it's a bit of a scattershot article and a good few of the points he makes are easily argued against or disproven. This isn't the first time he has worked in a league that has promotion and relegation, but it's the first time he has been the head coach and felt the full pressure of it. That's the article. Promotion and relegation and a long dirty league have absolutely no tie-in to World Cup success, it's a complete red herring.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby The Doc » January 3rd, 2020, 4:57 pm

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:ROG on the differences between Top and Pro 14.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 73324.html

I don’t think Irish rugby people get relegation and its consequences, certainly the emotional and psychological side of the subject, how it can get into your gut. It’s only when I moved from Ireland to France that I really began to grasp it.

The Top 14 is a results-driven league, and everything that such entails. There’s little by way of a results imperative in the Pro14, for instance. It’s about performance and getting your minutes in but over here, people would bite your arm off for a 6-3 win.

In Ireland, players get ready for test games by playing European Cup six times a season.

In England and France, the players play in hugely competitive domestic leagues every week, then they attack Europe and represent their country.


I read that article earlier and a few things struck me about it: firstly, France haven't won the Six Nations in a decade and were knocked out in the QFs of the last two World Cups – their extremely competitive league is doing absolutely f*cking nothing for them internationally.

They've got 30 professional teams [14 in Top 14, 16 in ProD2] and a phenomenal rugby culture in a wealthy, single landmass country of a manageable size. By the size of their rugby-playing population, their infrastructure and wealth, they should rarely finish outside the top two of the Six Nations and never finish in the bottom half. They should always be in the top four teams in the world.

Secondly, the last four RWCs [won by SA, NZ, NZ, SA respectively] have been won by countries whose top level tournament [Super Rugby] doesn't feature promotion and relegation.

The Japanese world cup effort was viewed as a great success, and most of their players didn't play any significant competitive rugby over the course of the season. They had something like 200 training days. Shota Horie played in 3 games [1+2] for the Sunwolves in 2019, his only non-international rugby; Michael Leitch didn't play any.

I like ROG, but it's a bit of a scattershot article and a good few of the points he makes are easily argued against or disproven. This isn't the first time he has worked in a league that has promotion and relegation, but it's the first time he has been the head coach and felt the full pressure of it. That's the article. Promotion and relegation and a long dirty league have absolutely no tie-in to World Cup success, it's a complete red herring.


The article almost has two opposing elements to it. The first half seems almost to be an essay on competitive leagues and rivalries over international rugby as a way of keeping the soul of rugby. Then tacked at the end (almost like an afterthought) is an attempt to argue that it would help the international team - though as you say, that link is tenuous at best.

It would make more sense if it left out that last section. Just argue that for supporters of Agen or La Rochelle, European or International rugby matters a lot less than the local rivalry. That makes sense. But that is also the problem football has where supporters rank club success way above international success - they are almost two different sets of supporters. The Welsh rugby model if you like!!
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby heno » January 4th, 2020, 12:36 pm

I think his main point is he is sick of weakened inter pro games and sees their value as preparation for higher level rugby being wasted. Which I would agree with.
In his current lens as top 14 coach he has latched on to the relegation arguement as being the one reason why they field less weakened teams in their leagues. (He was hardly going to say the top 14 way is not the best). I think it has more to do with the Irish minutes management than anything. But whatever the reason, weakened teams is a constant complaint against the pro 14 and we do need to address it if we want to the league to become more respected, more watched, more sponsorship, etc.

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby ronk » January 4th, 2020, 3:19 pm

I'd rather see a few hungry fringe players go at it 100% than the galacticos running through the motions trying not to get broken. Like watching Welsh regions on a bad day. I thought this was a good sequence of games, so far.

The Top 14 has the espoirs. Away form is infamous. Relegation is well established from the amateur era and there is a professional D2. Relegation is an anachronism of a long gone era, tacked on to Premiership to copy football and failing miserably. They should grt rid of it.

It cannot be applied to the Pro14. There is no debate, it can't work.

O'Gara came from an era/team where the Celtic League was to keep the Heineken Cup players warm while the internationals were busy and to get a few more matches when needed. The Munster team he was a part of didn't see it as a big thing.

It's a different tournament now. Leinster are a little too dominant and the Welsh are too feckless but there's still lots of good rugby.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Postby Dave Cahill » January 4th, 2020, 3:29 pm

Benetton Glasgow is a cracking game - Benetton have a great pack and are destroying Glasgow at scrum and maul but just don't have the class in the higher numbers. Glasgow are defending demonically and their backs are cutting the Italians to shreds in open play
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