Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to terminate?

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Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to terminate their contracts?

Right
32
55%
Wrong
25
43%
Don't know/No opinion
1
2%
 
Total votes : 58

Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby rooster » September 20th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
tomthefan wrote:https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bill-for-rugby-rape-trial-exceeds-500k-562k-869470.html

Bill for rugby rape trial exceeds £500k (€562k)

Lower than I expected with even though it doesn't include the players' legal costs.
They must be discounting the wages of the court staff, the judges etc.
The real cost of this must be in the millions.


with all due respect, can i please refer you back to the initial post - can we keep this thread to the rugby please??
Cheers glad to help.
It is strange that the feminists up here who were causing a fuss have totally disregarded a couple of rape cases one of which is in the news because it has been turned down by PPS.
Then again it does not fit the political agenda of those involved and also they have sorted out which factions of themselves got to have a say in the rape crisis center up here which got more funding due to case publicity that the old centre had closed.
All the talk of change to the system has also died a death.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby Oldschoolsocks » September 20th, 2018, 8:21 pm

Yeah, I’m pretty cynical when it comes to identity activists, the most charitable interpretation might be to say they’re “picking their battles”, less charitable would be chasing headlines
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby tomthefan » September 21st, 2018, 7:30 am

Sounds like you guys just haven't got woke yet.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby FLIP » September 21st, 2018, 7:58 am

tomthefan wrote:Sounds like you guys just haven't got woke yet.


Go woke, go broke.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby artaneboy » September 21st, 2018, 8:21 pm

tomthefan wrote:Sounds like you guys just haven't got woke yet.


Woke = forget logic or judgement; follow what’s fashionable...


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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby COYBIB » September 22nd, 2018, 2:10 am

I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby Oldschoolsocks » September 22nd, 2018, 4:34 am

COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be not guilty of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby rooster » September 24th, 2018, 12:17 am

They were also unfortunate that it was in the run up to the abortion referendum and there was a focus on abortion in the event of rape, the Repeal activists jumped on the bandwagon down your way and up here there was a more sinister political agenda in the bulk of the social media stuff which was linked into aledged cover ups in the so called legacy issues of the troubles. There was also the loss of the rape crisis centre and a bunch of infighting between a few activist groups for that.
Personally I think if the case was heard this year there would have been a lot less of the sensationalist reporting of the case and in fact it might have been dubious that the case would even have gone to court.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby olaf the fat » September 24th, 2018, 1:56 pm

COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.


Yeah, but...

For the IRFU its about the "brand" of rugby, damage the brand and you are F***ked. Big percentage of international tickets go to females, families and more liberal minded people - sponsors kind of like this cohort too.

Irfu cast aside the likes of Donnacha Ryan, Zebo & Mads to protect the power of their "home" contracts, the two top shaggers had no chance when they were protecting the brand.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby wixfjord » September 24th, 2018, 2:06 pm

COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3444294

That's public embarrassment of themselves and the IRFU.

How it came about is a moot point, and whether it was right or wrong is debatable.

But the IRFU had no choice based upon the texts.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby CiaranIrl » September 26th, 2018, 11:08 am

This was a powerful article, and for better or worse, I kept thinking about Jackson & Olding when reading it.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/1 ... s-hashtag/

The editor of the NYR was fired because they published it.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby rooster » September 26th, 2018, 3:52 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:This was a powerful article, and for better or worse, I kept thinking about Jackson & Olding when reading it.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/1 ... s-hashtag/

The editor of the NYR was fired because they published it.
Excellent article
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » September 26th, 2018, 6:16 pm

Quite a tough read but it was a good one, thanks for that.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby artaneboy » September 27th, 2018, 12:06 am

wixfjord wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3444294

That's public embarrassment of themselves and the IRFU.

How it came about is a moot point, and whether it was right or wrong is debatable.

But the IRFU had no choice based upon the texts.


The IRFU had plenty of choice; they made one that they notice they deem I’d best for them- and possibly the game. But there there was absolutely nothing obvious or logical about it.

The full implications of their choice have yet to be played out. Just wait for the next incident. Now that the standard is not only your public pronouncements- but private communications, that will have unforeseen results.

But I don’t notice that the furore was just a factor of the referendum or other then current circumstances. The issue of what constitutes sexual assault or disrespect is a cultural one across the western world; the Jackson/ Olding case was a fairly typical example of what is making it to court.

What was a surprise was the release of the WhatsApp messages. Hard to see what that was about except coercion to “cooperate” or to smear their reputations. It added absolutely nothing to the nub of the issue of consent.


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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby rooster » September 27th, 2018, 1:58 am

artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3444294

That's public embarrassment of themselves and the IRFU.

How it came about is a moot point, and whether it was right or wrong is debatable.

But the IRFU had no choice based upon the texts.


The IRFU had plenty of choice; they made one that they notice they deem I’d best for them- and possibly the game. But there there was absolutely nothing obvious or logical about it.

The full implications of their choice have yet to be played out. Just wait for the next incident. Now that the standard is not only your public pronouncements- but private communications, that will have unforeseen results.

But I don’t notice that the furore was just a factor of the referendum or other then current circumstances. The issue of what constitutes sexual assault or disrespect is a cultural one across the western world; the Jackson/ Olding case was a fairly typical example of what is making it to court.

What was a surprise was the release of the WhatsApp messages. Hard to see what that was about except coercion to “cooperate” or to smear their reputations. It added absolutely nothing to the nub of the issue of consent.


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Correct about the messages and they were even read out of sequence by the prosecution and a couple referred to the earlier part of the day and had nothing to do with the trial, some bits were left out which would have changed it to make more sense. Pity the girls text messages had not all been read out as well, then again it didn't suit prosecution.....

Character assination was all the prosecution had, better cases have been dumped without a hearing.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby sunshiner1 » September 27th, 2018, 2:22 am

Can we please stop talking about this?
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby artaneboy » September 27th, 2018, 10:00 pm

sunshiner1 wrote:Can we please stop talking about this?


You don’t have to click on the thread...


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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby sunshiner1 » September 28th, 2018, 2:31 am

by artaneboy »

sunshiner1 wrote:
Can we please stop talking about this?


You don’t have to click on the thread...


True. It's advice I'll be taking from now on :lol:
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby wixfjord » September 28th, 2018, 11:02 am

artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I think it was reactionary and knee jerk to fire the lads. Let's not forget, they were accused of something that they were found to be innocent of, but because of that accusation which is outside their control, it intruded into their personal life, publicly giving an account of what happened in the privacy of Paddy Jacksons bedroom and also publishing a group thread between a bunch of lads in their 20's... I mean what do you expect it to read like?

The point is neither man publicly embarrassed themselves or their employers, the situation imposed on them did, and eventually this would all have blown over. If they were kept under wraps until now and were starting their comeback game this weekend, even by now I think there would be minimal issues.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3444294

That's public embarrassment of themselves and the IRFU.

How it came about is a moot point, and whether it was right or wrong is debatable.

But the IRFU had no choice based upon the texts.


The IRFU had plenty of choice; they made one that they notice they deem I’d best for them- and possibly the game. But there there was absolutely nothing obvious or logical about it.

The full implications of their choice have yet to be played out. Just wait for the next incident. Now that the standard is not only your public pronouncements- but private communications, that will have unforeseen results.

But I don’t notice that the furore was just a factor of the referendum or other then current circumstances. The issue of what constitutes sexual assault or disrespect is a cultural one across the western world; the Jackson/ Olding case was a fairly typical example of what is making it to court.

What was a surprise was the release of the WhatsApp messages. Hard to see what that was about except coercion to “cooperate” or to smear their reputations. It added absolutely nothing to the nub of the issue of consent.


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You cannot be an international rugby player and have conversations about women like that in the public domain. Whether it was right or fair to let the messages be released publicly is another, separate question.
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Re: Jackson & Olding: were UR/IRFU right or wrong to termina

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » September 28th, 2018, 11:27 am

Am I right in saying that we don't actually know why they were sacked? So we can't really say whether the IRFU were right or wrong and that's the get out of jail free card that the IRFU can use if anything happens in future.
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