The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

[Ruckedtobits]

Williams, Scannell, Taute, Sherry, Kleyn, Cloete, and O'Mahony not nearly good enough. This is a mediocre Munster team, poorly coached.

Beaten out the door from Nos 6-13. Welsh Regions, playing with pride and anger, can still summon enough rugby hwyl to beat an Irish Province who are not sure how they should play.

Excellent coaching performance from Cardiff's Mulvihill. Not so much from Van Grann.

[blockhead]

Cardiff bossed the breakdown, I only saw the 2nd half tbf. But that is very suprising when you consider that TPFKAM had Beirne, Colete, POM and CJ in the starting 15.

[COYBIB]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

[Ruckedtobits]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

A brave, almost, realistic assessment. Munster do have to contend with stronger (team) sports competition for players compared to Ulster. But Ulster certainly has more potential and even the prospect of tapping into the rich physicality of the population West of the Bann.

However, the school (rugby) population in Ulster is not as widespread as Leinster nor is there Club infrastructure. Notwithstanding, Ulster is definitely a better long-term strategic development target for the IRFU than Munster. SUFTUM

[desperado]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

Ah here; be careful with the hyperbolae, arrogance and dodgy predictions.

[blockhead]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

Ah here; be careful with the hyperbolae, arrogance and dodgy predictions.

On the other hand though, despite all that, they did make it to 1 final and 3 semis (2 home heino qfs) in the last 2 seasons. With all the backroom upheaval and tragedy, you could say they have been fairly impressive.

[mildlyinterested]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

even I think this is ridiculous levels of sh!t

[Dave Cahill]

Cardiff bossed the breakdown, I only saw the 2nd half tbf. But that is very suprising when you consider that TPFKAM had Beirne, Colete, POM and CJ in the starting 15.

It was only after the game was over that I remembered that Stander was playing.

Even though they were completely destroyed as a unit, I thought that Cloete left everything out there.

[Peg Leg]

Cardiff bossed the breakdown, I only saw the 2nd half tbf. But that is very suprising when you consider that TPFKAM had Beirne, Colete, POM and CJ in the starting 15.

It was only after the game was over that I remembered that Stander was playing.

Even though they were completely destroyed as a unit, I thought that Cloete left everything out there.

Correct, he did. Unfortunately everything is a pair of huge arms with no hands. He is a likeable players but not as skilful as you would want.
Stander in Cardiff last night announced himself the p14 heir apparent to Sam Warburton.

[tomthefan]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

Thanks for cheering me up this morning, quality trolling.

[wixfjord]

The bit of Blue Magic is all that's left to make them look competitive. It wont be long until ourselves, Ulster and South Africa own them outright, with the odd sprinkle of a token Munster man. They currently have 3 home grown top quality players in their squad, but they're all 29/30 now. If they don't produce a player in the next 3 or 4 years (and why would anything change now?), it's possible they could have no top quality Munster man in the squad... THAT'S when it'll get excruciating, because then they'll descend further into farce by either having official or unofficial "quotas" in place - X number of players must be academy products - or it will become a made up team, like in football, just all signings (at some clubs).

I say this in absolute sincerity, I honestly can't believe the IRFU don't ditch the Munster project, it's been a decade of propping them up, their fans disappeared and left us to pick up the tab for the white elephant at thomond, bailed out loans, bailed out with players, and where does it get you? Scraping into Euro semis (realistically they're nowhere near the top 4 in Europe, they're barely top 4 in the league) and diddly squat in the cabinet.

I can imagine there are powerful Munster voices in the IRFU who perpetuate the munster myth, but when you look at Ulster, they have similar (almost identical) playing numbers to Leinster, they have a similar schools structure, they're based in a major city with large fanbase to tap into, they're debt free with a brand spanking new stadium and they turn a profit, they are already producing great players fairly consistently, but it would be far easier to replicate the Leinster model in Ulster and have two academies churning out players than to have one academy doing it, propping up another place and trying to get them to produce players for a decade, whilst largely ignoring an untapped gold mine up north.

I know all provinces are "funded equally", but if the IRFU put even a fraction of the money they've sunk down the blackhole of Munster into Ulster, they could have two naturally great teams feeding the national team, rather than one, with an artificial big team and an underachieving one.

Traditionally Leinster and Ulster have been the two major hubs of Irish rugby, I'm talking over the century +, not from 1990 to 2011, they were the first two provinces (unofficially) founded, played unofficially before the branches were formally founded and before a Munster team even existed, Munster were always competitive, but Ulster and Leinster dominated the interpros up until the big Munster purple patch (and a cruel one at that, put egg on a lot of face), it makes sense to focus on those as the big two.

Personally I think it will happen eventually, Munster had timing on their side coming into professionalism and positioned themselves very well, but they're becoming the white elephant now, and as they say, there's no value in sunk costs, it's coming time to start phasing the focus over to Ulster and building on that stable foundation rather than trying to save the house built on sand.

Reads like satire.

I say this in absolute sincerity - that is utter nonsense.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Cardiff bossed the breakdown, I only saw the 2nd half tbf. But that is very suprising when you consider that TPFKAM had Beirne, Colete, POM and CJ in the starting 15.

It was only after the game was over that I remembered that Stander was playing.

Even though they were completely destroyed as a unit, I thought that Cloete left everything out there.

Correct, he did. Unfortunately everything is a pair of huge arms with no hands. He is a likeable players but not as skilful as you would want.
Stander in Cardiff last night announced himself the p14 heir apparent to Sam Warburton.

I wouldn't read too much into it. First game back in a team that struggled and he was on holidays in SA recently. He looked a long way off being match fit.

[artaneboy]

Cardiff bossed the breakdown, I only saw the 2nd half tbf. But that is very suprising when you consider that TPFKAM had Beirne, Colete, POM and CJ in the starting 15.

It was only after the game was over that I remembered that Stander was playing.

Even though they were completely destroyed as a unit, I thought that Cloete left everything out there.

Stander was anonymous. POM tried hard. Cloete player very well. Last week that ref gave him a few poaches that were borderline; this week he decided not to.

They probably deserved to be closer to Cardiff than the final score suggests, but they were worryingly outplayed with a near first team selection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[COYBIB]

Anybody care to contradict even a single point I made, let alone the bulk of what I said, or will we just continue our little circle jerk?

[Peg Leg]

Anybody care to contradict even a single point I made, let alone the bulk of what I said, or will we just continue our little circle jerk?

They still make it to league finals and euro semi-finals. Ulster, not so much. There is an argument for tougher love, but I don't believe your sincerity wrt the notion that the irfu should cut them loose. Particularly given the patience and support shown to connacht

[Oldschoolsocks]

Anybody care to contradict even a single point I made, let alone the bulk of what I said, or will we just continue our little circle jerk?

tbh - it was a very well written, thought out and articulated little piece, however, I really have to agree with Mildly and Wixford on this one, this really does read like a satire

[Logorrhea]

Anybody care to contradict even a single point I made, let alone the bulk of what I said, or will we just continue our little circle jerk?

Thought you made a lot of sense.

[leinsterforever]

Complete no-shows for entire halves seem to be becoming a bit of a trend under van Graan. It was 24-0 in the second half away to Ulster last January, 24-3 at half time against Racing, and now 22-0 in the first half against Glasgow and 23-0 in the second half against Cardiff.

They're becoming flat-track bullies a little bit - big victories if they can get physical dominance, but in danger of getting beaten out the gate otherwise.

[deco]

Anybody care to contradict even a single point I made, let alone the bulk of what I said, or will we just continue our little circle jerk?

Thought you made a lot of sense.

This.

There seems to be an unwritten rule that Munster need to be shored up to compete for silverware, when their real level is fighting for the last qualification spots with the Cardiffs and Edinburghs. I suspect the IRFU would have got better returns by putting the same level of investment into Ulster/Connacht as they have done Munster have in recent years.

They have a squad with some excellent players. This time last year they had very few that would have made the Leinster team - this year they have half a dozen that would cause Leinster some serious headaches in selection. Their difficulty is getting a team of mercenaries to perform the same way as a team with more than a sprinkling of born and reared Munster beef.

It's early in the season and they might get it right but right now they are a joke of a club, a poor mans Racing Metro.

[tomthefan]

Regarding the Thomond Park debt it's easy to not have a debt when you get a stadium gifted to you as is the case for Ulster and Leinster