The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

[BlueBlue]

Just looking at the highlights of the first half against Glasgow.
JJ had a bit of a mare, maybe Munster and Carbs have got it right after all.
However it is early in the season so maybe the kangaroo courts should be parked for a few more games.
It's going to be a big season for a few players in the different provinces, will they be able to handle the pressure?

I don't think it's too early to judge JJ. I was on the JJ bandwagon for years. My logic was solid though. He came second in the U20 world player of the year. In his first real season with Munster he won the pro12 golden boot when coached by Rob Penney. He has speed, a good pass and can play in more than one position. So logically you'd think he would have gotten better and pushed for Ireland selection.


From what I've seen in the last year, he's gotten WORSE. I don't think he has the mentality to play 10 and his kicking game is below average for it.


I think it will be Carbery and Bill Johnstone going forward with JJ a utility squad player. Bleyendaal will likely retire or Munster will likely not renew his contract. I think they've decided that Keatley will be on his way in the next year also. Keatley is a decent player but just lacking the quality needed.

Its not too early to judge Carbery either.

[Oldschool]

Joey came on and missed a penalty to touch, kicked very poorly out of hand which resulted in significant territory gains for Glasgow in the second half on 3 occasions when Munster had many wasted opportunities and Glasgow need the pressure release, in short his game management let Glasgow off the hook. He runs / glides beautifully, one of the most balanced runners in the game, but he also runs his team up their own arse holes, 2 passes behind team mates, and 2 unsympathetic passes that bounced off forwards who were running good angles and at pace. It wasn't a mare of the magnitude of Leinster V Benetton in the RDS a few months back, or Ulster V Leinster at the tail end of the previous season, which I witnessed in person, but it was on the same road. Against Glasgow considering he only came on in the 45th minute, in game circumstances more favourable to Munster, that's a pretty high error count. Errors aside, he didn't manage the team into the right positions, in fact he let Glasgow off the hook more often than not.

Joey is a natural full back, his talents fit the position. He has the skills to learn to be a good 10, but he is more than a season away. I watch with interest. He's in a bit of a honeymoon period with Munster, that period ended with Leinster very definitely deciding he is not 10. A back up to 10 perhaps, a utility back yes, but a 15 was Leinster conclusion. In my view he could be a 15 of Isa standards. That's no small conclusion from Leo, Stuart and Girvin, the coaching team that know him best and coach him 24/7.

My view is that Carbery, in any side that already has good options at 10, will not be played as a 10 because he is such a good 15. At Leinster there were world class options in Sexton, and an excellent no-2 in Ross Byrne. Ross Byrne is a far better 10 than Carbery. So at Leinster Joey (if he stayed) would have played brilliantly as a 15, developed and would have been a regular starter. At Munster due to mismanagement, bad coaching and a high coach turn over Munster do not have a clear 1st choice starting 10. No 10 at Munster have the qualities to be an International 10, or any where near it. So Joey gets his chance to be a 10, but its only a chance for a player still in development and learning to be a 10, especially when it comes to game management. Joey is taking all the risks when it comes to how this will pan out, Munster a little, but if it works out it will be of benefit to Munster so its worth the risk.

This leads my thinking onto Joe-S, Joe out of all the people involved has reduced his risk, if it works out he has a utility back who is a credible replacement or starting 10 against a tier-2 nation. At the same time, he has other options at 10 who have a whole season to run to make Schmidt question his options / decision . If another player, Ross Byrne for example gets a 10th of a percentage point ahead of Carbery , ruthless Joe will change course without a care for Carbery. That's as it should be, he is as ruthless as that in my view.

If you look at Carberys career, he has had to move on twice because Ross Byrne owned the 10 jersey ahead of him, at UCD he had to move to Clontarf and at Leinster he's had to move to Munster. Joey takes all the risk and Joe watches on with increased opportunity to arrive at seasons end with more options going into the world cup. If it works out for Joey, it will mean he learns to be a 10 in a team where its questionable the team is a match for his talents. Tall order. If it doesn't work out, Munster could turn on him like they turned on Keatley, messy and also a potential car crash. If it is a car crash he wont be in a good position in regard to Irish provincial options nor Ireland. If it works, he'll be at Munster for a long time. Why wouldn't he be. My perspective as a Leinster supporter is that Joey is gone and gone for good.

Why has Joe opted for Carbery and why is Carbery a player who lost the 10 battle with Ross Byrne at Leinster in the driving seat for Ireland no2 ? My answer is timing. 1 year ago Joe didn't have many or more accurately any options. Blyendall, not an option and even when Ireland qualified still not an option. Keatly, no. Madigan probably not, but still an option for a world cup in a desperate situation, but not an option a year ago due to playing 2nd Div and not being in Ireland. JJ, no and Paddy what's his face, possible but a no a year ago and most probably into world cup year. So Sept 2017 and earlier 2 years or more out from a world cup (actually reasonable timing), Joe only had one option and he invested in it. Now that he has invested in it, the Carbery option, he has to maximise the possible chance of that investment paying off. That means Joey is in the driving seat, but there's a year to run. I watch with interest. But right now, Joey playing poorly can do no wrong.

If Joey keeps it up he might even get an early release back to Leinster.

[BlueBlue]

If Joey keeps it up he might even get an early release back to Leinster.

Oldschool, I understand you're having a laugh. But I'd be very disappointed to see Joey Carbery in a Leinster jersey ever again. Not for Joey, good luck to him, but for Leinster it would mean that Leinster have not moved on. It would be a failure on Leinster's part if there was an opening or a need for Joey. Leinster as Lancaster has said needs to move on, improve, develop other players. There will be no opening to come back into.

On a personal note, I believe Leinster will always be the province that gives the most to the benefit of Ireland and other provinces, because of this we need boundaries that are immovable. If a player decides to up and quit Leinster to join another team, it should be next to, or almost impossible to get back into the team. The organisation thinks like this already, and it needs to, if it is to stay on top and also to send out a signal to players that drop Leinster, that their decision is final. Good luck and don't let the up and comer who will take your jersey kick you up the arse on the way out.

Before anyone says what if we applied that rule to Sexton. Its different, Sexton to Leinster disgust was not signed by the IRFU who in fairness immediately began to make good their mistake with Leinster granted in the driving seat. Sexton wanted to stay and was out of contract, Leinster wanted Sexton to stay. The IRFU had a brain fart. Joey was in contract (new territory here), Leinster wanted him to stay, needed him to stay (in the Leinster depth chart Joey replaced Isa and Kearney) but he left anyway. He turned down a future with Leinster and Ireland for a future with Munster and Ireland. Good luck but you are owed nothing.

[Laighin Break]

If Joey keeps it up he might even get an early release back to Leinster.

Oldschool, I understand you're having a laugh. But I'd be very disappointed to see Joey Carbery in a Leinster jersey ever again. Not for Joey, good luck to him, but for Leinster it would mean that Leinster have not moved on. It would be a failure on Leinster's part if there was an opening or a need for Joey. Leinster as Lancaster has said needs to move on, improve, develop other players. There will be no opening to come back into.

On a personal note, I believe Leinster will always be the province that gives the most to the benefit of Ireland and other provinces, because of this we need boundaries that are immovable. If a player decides to up and quit Leinster to join another team, it should be next to, or almost impossible to get back into the team. The organisation thinks like this already, and it needs to, if it is to stay on top and also to send out a signal to players that drop Leinster, that their decision is final. Good luck and don't let the up and comer who will take your jersey kick you up the arse on the way out.

Before anyone says what if we applied that rule to Sexton. Its different, Sexton to Leinster disgust was not signed by the IRFU who in fairness immediately began to make good their mistake with Leinster granted in the driving seat. Sexton wanted to stay and was out of contract, Leinster wanted Sexton to stay. The IRFU had a brain fart. Joey was in contract (new territory here), Leinster wanted him to stay, needed him to stay (in the Leinster depth chart Joey replaced Isa and Kearney) but he left anyway. He turned down a future with Leinster and Ireland for a future with Munster and Ireland. Good luck but you are owed nothing.

We were only too happy to have Cullen and Jennings return from their stints abroad. If it would be a failure on Leinster's part if there was an opening or a need for Joey, then you could argue that about any signing Leinster make.

[tomthefan]

On a personal note, I believe Leinster will always be the province that gives the most to the benefit of Ireland and other provinces

[fourthirtythree]

Everyone gets that poem wrong.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Poemgate?

[fourthirtythree]

Poemgate?

Edit: this wasn't working, was fine in the preview.

I still hate you.

[BlueBlue]

If Joey keeps it up he might even get an early release back to Leinster.

Oldschool, I understand you're having a laugh. But I'd be very disappointed to see Joey Carbery in a Leinster jersey ever again. Not for Joey, good luck to him, but for Leinster it would mean that Leinster have not moved on. It would be a failure on Leinster's part if there was an opening or a need for Joey. Leinster as Lancaster has said needs to move on, improve, develop other players. There will be no opening to come back into.

On a personal note, I believe Leinster will always be the province that gives the most to the benefit of Ireland and other provinces, because of this we need boundaries that are immovable. If a player decides to up and quit Leinster to join another team, it should be next to, or almost impossible to get back into the team. The organisation thinks like this already, and it needs to, if it is to stay on top and also to send out a signal to players that drop Leinster, that their decision is final. Good luck and don't let the up and comer who will take your jersey kick you up the arse on the way out.

Before anyone says what if we applied that rule to Sexton. Its different, Sexton to Leinster disgust was not signed by the IRFU who in fairness immediately began to make good their mistake with Leinster granted in the driving seat. Sexton wanted to stay and was out of contract, Leinster wanted Sexton to stay. The IRFU had a brain fart. Joey was in contract (new territory here), Leinster wanted him to stay, needed him to stay (in the Leinster depth chart Joey replaced Isa and Kearney) but he left anyway. He turned down a future with Leinster and Ireland for a future with Munster and Ireland. Good luck but you are owed nothing.

We were only too happy to have Cullen and Jennings return from their stints abroad. If it would be a failure on Leinster's part if there was an opening or a need for Joey, then you could argue that about any signing Leinster make.

Yes, but do you want to go back to that Leinster or maintain the Leinster we have now? We both know the answer to that question.

[tomthefan]

Yes, but do you want to go back to that Leinster or maintain the Leinster we have now? We both know the answer to that question.

You're right, Leinster is different, in rugby terms it makes its own gravity.
Prodigal sons hoping to return home should be given short shrift.
You can't trust them not to betray you again.
And hiring mercenaries like isa nacewa, rocky elsom, filipe contepomi, Mike Ross or Sean Cronin should
be totally out of the question.
This is Leinster's manifest destiny!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Poemgate?

Edit: this wasn't working, was fine in the preview.

I still hate you.

Hategate?

[Dave Cahill]

"Munster" (v Ospreys):

15. England's Mike Haley
14. Andrew Conway
13. Sammy Arnold
12. Dan Goggin
11. Darren Sweetnam
10. Joey Carbery
9. Duncan Williams

1. James Cronin
2. Rhys Marshall
3. Stephen Archer
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. Darren O’Shea
6. Peter O’Mahony (captain)
7. Chris Cloete
8. Arno Botha

Replacements:

16. Mike Sherry
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. John Ryan
19. Jean Kleyn
20. Tommy O’Donnell
21. James Hart
22. Ian Keatley
23. Jaco Taute

[cormac]

Having seen the Ospreys team this is going to be a comfortable five-pointer for Munster

[Dave Cahill]

Having seen the Ospreys team this is going to be a comfortable five-pointer for Munster

So many disrepects.

[dropkick]

And the Welsh were complaining about Irish teams undermining the league...

[deco]

"Munster" (v Ospreys):

15. England's Mike Haley
14. Andrew Conway
13. Sammy Arnold
12. Dan Goggin
11. Darren Sweetnam
10. Joey Carbery
9. Duncan Williams

1. James Cronin
2. Rhys Marshall
3. Stephen Archer
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. Darren O’Shea
6. Peter O’Mahony (captain)
7. Chris Cloete
8. Arno Botha

Replacements:

16. Mike Sherry
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. John Ryan
19. Jean Kleyn
20. Tommy O’Donnell
21. James Hart
22. Ian Keatley
23. Jaco Taute

Good team, but a joke of a club. PMRM.

[BlueBlue]

With that Hairsprays team we can look forward to a ROG Show !

[mildlyinterested]

"Munster" (v Ospreys):

15. England's Mike Haley
14. Leinster's Andrew Conway
13. Englands' Sammy Arnold
12. Dan Goggin
11. Darren Sweetnam
10. Leinster's Joey Carbery
9. Duncan Williams

1. James Cronin
2. New Zealand's Rhys Marshall
3. Stephen Archer
4. Leinster's Tadhg Beirne
5. Darren O’Shea
6. Peter O’Mahony (captain)
7. South Africa's Chris Cloete
8. South Africa's Arno Botha

Replacements:

16. Mike Sherry
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. John Ryan
19. South Africa's Jean Kleyn
20. Tommy O’Donnell
21. Leinster's James Hart
22. Leinster's Ian Keatley
23. South Africa's Jaco Taute

Good team, but a joke of a club. PMRM.

[BlueBlue]

8 out of 15 starters not from Munster, another 4 non-munster on the bench. Its a team but its not a Provincial team, funny but also quite sad to see how the boastful have fallen.

[BlueBlue]

Of Munster 1st team squad on their official web-site they have 47 players listed. Of the 47, a whopping 20 are not from Munster.