The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

[TerenureJim]

Some interesting pieces in the IT of late I wonder if there are some more serious issues behind the scenes. The piece on Rassie was definitely a surprising line to take

[Ruckedtobits]

Some interesting pieces in the IT of late I wonder if there are some more serious issues behind the scenes. The piece on Rassie was definitely a surprising line to take

I wonder if Nucifora is cracking the Budget line and so many players means cost cuts elsewhere in the camp.

[fourthirtythree]

Bill Johnstone heading up north. Should be a good move for him. They know how to play young outhalves up there. Hopefully it inspires munster to play some of their u20s next yesr. Realistically he has three senior ouhalves ahead of him at munster and only one gets international call ups. Making Keatley carry the blame didnt help their youth any.

Connacht know what to do with young scrum halves if theres anyone down there not wanting to go to Leinster but lookimg at the shopping being done in front of him...

[dropkick]

Bill Johnstone heading up north. Should be a good move for him. They know how to play young outhalves up there. Hopefully it inspires munster to play some of their u20s next yesr. Realistically he has three senior ouhalves ahead of him at munster and only one gets international call ups. Making Keatley carry the blame didnt help their youth any.

Connacht know what to do with young scrum halves if theres anyone down there not wanting to go to Leinster but lookimg at the shopping being done in front of him...

Hopefully. JVG is starting to look like Matt O'Connor in terms of squad management.

[hugonaut]

I think it's worth remembering that he inherited a large part of his squad, and that Munster restructured their academy a year ago [source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 38168.html ]. The province have announced a number of departures recently [source: https://munsterrugby.ie/2019/05/03/depa ... confirmed/ ] and they were all guys who van Graan had essentially sidelined through selection.

Recently announced:
Duncan Williams [replaced by Nick McCarthy, Leinster]
James Hart [no replacement]
Dave O'Callaghan [replaced by Gavin Coombes, Munster Academy graduate; and Sean O'Connor, Munster Academy graduate]
Mike Sherry [no replacement]

Previously announced were:
Taute -> Leicester [replaced by Shane Daly, Munster Academy graduate]
Keatley -> Treviso [no replacement]
Fitzgerald -> Connacht [no replacement]
Ronan O'Mahony -> Retirement [no replacement, although Calvin Nash moves from development to senior contract and will benefit]

Heavily rumoured:
Bill Johnston -> Ulster [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3884160 ]

The Irish Times have Bill Johnston moving to Ulster, which is plausible, if surprising: I thought he'd head to Connacht. His departure is a directly result of Carbery moving from Leinster mid-contract. His Munster bio states that he "signed a two-year contract extension at the province in April 2018 that will keep him at Munster until at least June 2020" [source: https://munsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=BJ135383 ], so it looks like he requested a move. It's a good and brave decision for him. He is in his second full year of a senior deal and van Graan was only affording him bits and bobs of gametime to try and keep him interested, rather than having a plan for him to progress.

Calvin Nash [b.1997] will presumably be expected to fill the roles of Fitzgerald and O'Mahony - the latter two combined for 240 mins of gametime this season [all of them for the O'Mahony]. Nash was on a development contract this season but signed a two-year senior deal in December. Realistically, he was promoted from the academy too early - he has played 96 minutes of first grade rugby this season, and they've probably payed him 3-5 times what they needed to pay him this year [the difference between an academy deal and a development contract]. But he was a very good U20 international, and I expect him to perform well.

Shane Daly [b.1996] will move up from the academy as a centre/wing. Nominally a replacement for Taute, it's difficult to see where the minutes will come from for him. Chris Farrell and Sam Arnold have started games exclusively at No13, and Dan Goggin has had nine of his thirteen starts at No13 as well ... it seems likely that Daly will feature as a wing next season. That puts him directly in competition with Nash and Wooton on the rung below Sweetnam.

Nick McCarthy [b.1995] is essentially a replacement for the 33-year old Duncan Williams. Hart has been a non-factor at Munster. Mathewson re-signing for a third extension of his deal probably limits McCarthy's early chances somewhat, after a write-off of a season for Leinster.

Gavin Coombes [b.1997] can be seen as a replacement for Dave O'Callaghan. O'Callaghan has been a non-factor this year, with only 138 mins of Pro14 rugby. Coombes has a lot of potential; I think he's the best player in the Munster Academy at the moment. Sean O'Connor [b.1996] is also being promoted from the academy as a blindside/lock. Not sure where the minutes are going to come from for him, as Fineen Wycherly [b.1997] was promoted ahead of him for exactly the same role. Obviously RWC19 will thin out the squad a little at the start of the season, so he has a chance to impress.

That's nine out and four in, three from the Munster Academy. That brings their squad numbers down from an unwieldy 48 to a much more efficient 43. The squad has got younger and their depth chart at halfback has been rationalised - they were five deep at outhalf and five deep at scrum-half, now they look like they'll be three deep at outhalf and four deep at scrum-half, which is a big improvement. Van Graan will not be happy to lose Johnston, but he didn't do enough to keep him. Otherwise the pruning shows his hand.

[mildlyinterested]

Projected Munster Squad next season

LH Prop
Dave Kilcoyne(30/Ardscoil Ris/UL Bohs) - contracted until 2020
James Cronin(28/Highfield RFC/Dolphin) - contracted until 2021
Liam O'Connor(24/CBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2020
Jeremy Loughman(24/Blackrock College/UCD) - contracted until 2020

James French(20/Bandon Grammar/UCC) - Year 2
Josh Wycherley(20/Roscrea/Young Munster) - Year 2

TH Prop
Stephen Archer(31/CBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2020
John Ryan(31/CBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2022
Brian Scott(26/PBC Cork/Dolphin) - contracted until 2020
Ciaran Parker(23/Exile) - contracted until 2020

Keynan Knox(20/South Africa) - Year 3
Luke Masters(19/CBC Cork/Shannon) - Year 1

Hooker
Kevin O'Byrne(28/PBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2020
Niall Scannell(27/PBC Cork/Dolphin) - contracted until 2021
Rhys Marshall(26/New Zealand) - contracted until 2021

Diarmuid Barron(21/Rockwell College/Garryowen) - Year 2
Eoghan Clarke(21/CBC Monkstown/Shannon) - Year 2

Lock
Billy Holland(34/CBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2020
Tadhg Beirne(27/Clongowes/Lansdowne) - contracted until 2020
Darren O'Shea(26/Crosshaven RFC/Dolphin) - contracted until 2020
Jean Kleyn(26/South Africa) - contracted until 2022
Sean O'Connor(23/Rockwell College/Garryowen) - contracted until 2020
Fineen Wycherley(21/Roscrea/Young Munster) - contracted until 2021

Thomas Ahern(19/Waterpark RFC/Shannon) - Year 2
Paddy Kelly(19/St. Munchins/Young Munster) - Year 1
Eoin O'Connor(19/Waterpark RFC) - Year 1

Backrow
Tommy O'Donnell(32/Clanwilliam RFC/UL Bohs) - contracted until 2021
Peter O'Mahony(30/PBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2021
CJ Stander(29/South Africa) - contracted until 2021
Chris Cloete(28/South Africa) - contracted until 2022
Arno Botha(27/South Africa) - contracted until 2020
Jack O'Donoghue(25/Waterpark RFC/UL Bohs) - contracted until 2021
Conor Oliver(24/Blackrock College/Garryowen) - contracted until 2020
Gavin Coombes(21/Bandon Grammar/Young Munster) - contracted until 2021

Jack Daly(21/Castleisland RFC/Garryowen) - Year 2
Jack O'Sullivan(20/PBC Cork/UCC) - Year 3
John Hodnett(20/Clonakilty RFC/UCC) - Year 1

Scrumhalf
Alby Mathewson(33/New Zealand) - contracted until Nov 2019
Conor Murray(30/St. Munchins/Garryowen) - contracted until 2022
Neil Cronin(26/Castletroy/Garryowen) - contracted until 2021
Nick McCarthy(24/St. Michaels College/UCD) - contracted until 2021
Craig Casey(20/Ardscoil Ris/Shannon) - contracted until 2021

Jack Stafford(22/Glenstal Abbey/Shannon) - Year 3

Outhalf
Tyler Bleyendaal(29/New Zealand) - contracted until 2021
JJ Hanrahan(27/Rockwell College/UL Bohs) - contracted until 2021
Joey Carbery(23/Blackrock College/Clontarf) - contracted until 2022

Ben Healy(20/Glenstal Abbey/Garryowen) - Year 2
Jake Flannery(20/Rockwell College/Shannon) - Year 1

Centre
Chris Farrell(26/Campbell College) - contracted until 2022
Rory Scannell(25/PBC Cork/Dolphin) - contracted until 2021
Dan Goggin(24/St. Munchins/Young Munster) - contracted until 2020
Sam Arnold(23/Exile) - contracted until 2020
Shane Daly(22/PBC Cork/Cork Con) - contracted until 2021

Alex McHenry(21/CBC Cork/Cork Con) - Year 3
Sean French(20/PBC Cork/Cork Con) - Year 2

Back Three
Keith Earls(31/St. Munchins/Young Munster) - contracted until 2021
Andrew Conway(28/Blackrock College) - contracted until 2020
Darren Sweetnam(26/Bandon Grammar/Dolphin) - contracted until 2021
Alex Wootton(25/Exile/Garryowen) - contracted until 2021
Mike Haley(25/Exile) - contracted until 2021
Calvin Nash(22/Crescent College/Young Munster) - contracted until 2021

Liam Coombes(22/CBC Cork/Garryowen) - Year 3
Alan Tynan(22/Roscrea/Young Munster) - Year 3
Jonathan Wren(20/PBC Cork/Cork Con) - Year 2
Conor Phillips(20/Crescent College/Young Munster) - Year 1

[sunshiner1]

by hugonaut

The Irish Times have Bill Johnston moving to Ulster, which is plausible, if surprising: I thought he'd head to Connacht.

The more I see how Dan McFarland does his job the more impressed I am with him. Fair play to Johnston as well for backing himself. I think he'll do well there. Ulster are a young team with an exciting backline.

I think the movement of players between provinces is becoming more and more normalized. Nucifora had to force it for a while but now you see becoming a regular occurence.

I'll also be interested to see if the James Cronin rumour is true and how that affects things if he has to retire. You'd assume an NIQ would be brought in or they'd be on the phone to Ed Byrne.

[fourthirtythree]

Bill Johnstone heading up north. Should be a good move for him. They know how to play young outhalves up there. Hopefully it inspires munster to play some of their u20s next yesr. Realistically he has three senior ouhalves ahead of him at munster and only one gets international call ups. Making Keatley carry the blame didnt help their youth any.

Connacht know what to do with young scrum halves if theres anyone down there not wanting to go to Leinster but lookimg at the shopping being done in front of him...

Hopefully. JVG is starting to look like Matt O'Connor in terms of squad management.

BEGONE! [waves garlic and mutters imprecations]

As Hugo0 pointed out above Van Graan is taking a broom to the squad akin to Ulster this season which is promising. Also when he (van Graan) said "the first thing is to get the current coaching team re-signed" it turned out he meant (from what it appears to me) signed as assistants to their replacements of his choosing. Which is tough, and probably most tough on Flannery in most people's opinion. I know everyone is blaming Jones these days but for me where Munster lost in the pointy ends of the European Cup this season and last was they were blown away at the breakdown by Racing and Sarries. Two teams of tough nuts that will do that to you. Maybe trimming and making younger the squad and getting a coach to train the players to deal with that (and use your backs better) and van Graan looks like a man with a plan that just might work. I'd be optimistic I think.

[blockhead]

Bill Johnstone heading up north. Should be a good move for him. They know how to play young outhalves up there. Hopefully it inspires munster to play some of their u20s next yesr. Realistically he has three senior ouhalves ahead of him at munster and only one gets international call ups. Making Keatley carry the blame didnt help their youth any.

Connacht know what to do with young scrum halves if theres anyone down there not wanting to go to Leinster but lookimg at the shopping being done in front of him...

Hopefully. JVG is starting to look like Matt O'Connor in terms of squad management.

BEGONE! [waves garlic and mutters imprecations]

As Hugo0 pointed out above Van Graan is taking a broom to the squad akin to Ulster this season which is promising. Also when he (van Graan) said "the first thing is to get the current coaching team re-signed" it turned out he meant (from what it appears to me) signed as assistants to their replacements of his choosing. Which is tough, and probably most tough on Flannery in most people's opinion. I know everyone is blaming Jones these days but for me where Munster lost in the pointy ends of the European Cup this season and last was they were blown away at the breakdown by Racing and Sarries. Two teams of tough nuts that will do that to you. Maybe trimming and making younger the squad and getting a coach to train the players to deal with that (and use your backs better) and van Graan looks like a man with a plan that just might work. I'd be optimistic I think.

From the Examiner:

The head coach was on the record as saying he wanted Flannery and Jones to continue as valued staff members alongside his own pick as defence coach JP Ferreira. Suggestions that he wanted a new attack coach, and all that implied for Jones, were wide of the mark, however, and though van Graan did state he was looking for a new coach, the position being sought was for a wider remit, to lighten the burden on the existing staff with a multi-purpose brief across all their posts.

[fourthirtythree]

From the Examiner:

the position being sought was for a wider remit, to lighten the burden on the existing staff with a multi-purpose brief across all their posts.

If my boss sought to hire in someone to "lighten the burden on me and my colleagues with a multi-purpose brief across all our posts", I'd consider that a demotion rather than us keeping our jobs. It means a new layer of management I would be reporting to. So my assumptions about what he meant when he said he wanted them retained were correct. Leinster needed experience too.

[Peg Leg]

by hugonaut

The Irish Times have Bill Johnston moving to Ulster, which is plausible, if surprising: I thought he'd head to Connacht.

The more I see how Dan McFarland does his job the more impressed I am with him. Fair play to Johnston as well for backing himself. I think he'll do well there. Ulster are a young team with an exciting backline.

I think the movement of players between provinces is becoming more and more normalized. Nucifora had to force it for a while but now you see becoming a regular occurence.

I'll also be interested to see if the James Cronin rumour is true and how that affects things if he has to retire. You'd assume an NIQ would be brought in or they'd be on the phone to Ed Byrne.

Or Jack McGrath, because contracts schmontracts.

"It was Mrs. O'Leary's cow"

[Peg Leg]

From the Examiner:

the position being sought was for a wider remit, to lighten the burden on the existing staff with a multi-purpose brief across all their posts.

If my boss sought to hire in someone to "lighten the burden on me and my colleagues with a multi-purpose brief across all our posts", I'd consider that a demotion rather than us keeping our jobs. It means a new layer of management I would be reporting to. So my assumptions about what he meant when he said he wanted them retained were correct. Leinster needed experience too.

"So, as you know, we've been looking at changing the commission structure to a fairer model which, my guy let me tell you, means more opportunity for you...."

"It was Mrs. O'Leary's cow"

[ronk]

There was a hint of the Rassie over Foley situation and it looks like Flannery and Jones didn't like the offers.

The fact that van Graan has been brutal in selection terms to players he lost interest in would set off alarm bells for a young ambitious coach. Get out while you still have a reputation or take a paycheck and run down your contract.

The last few coaches have gone on buying & clearing out binges. If and when van Graan actually develops young players in a meaningful way then he will be seen as a developing coach. Until then he's more of the same.

[hugonaut]

The head coach was on the record as saying he wanted Flannery and Jones to continue as valued staff members alongside his own pick as defence coach JP Ferreira. Suggestions that he wanted a new attack coach, and all that implied for Jones, were wide of the mark, however, and though van Graan did state he was looking for a new coach, the position being sought was for a wider remit, to lighten the burden on the existing staff with a multi-purpose brief across all their posts.

Don't know what to make of that. As reportage, I presume it's more or less straight from a Munster source's mouth, but there's no quote and no named source. As comment/analysis, it's passive. It reads like somebody just delivered a story that Munster want in the press.

"A multi-purpose brief across all ... posts" is the Head Coach's job.

You can extrapolate that van Graan was looking for somebody to fill the role that Stuart Lancaster has at Leinster, but Lancaster wasn't brought in to 'lighten the burden' on the other coaches – Girv, Fogs [Kurt McQuilken was officially gone] – at Leinster, he was brought in over their heads.

There's big discrepancy in the positions Cullen and van Graan are in in their respective careers. Cullen retired from playing at the end of the 2013-14 season, was promoted to forwards coach the following season and then became head coach the following season after O'Connor was sacked. He had two years of coaching experience when he brought in Lancaster in Sep 2016. In contrast, van Graan has been involved in pro coaching since 2004 [15 years at this stage] - first as a technical adviser to the Bulls [2004], then as forwards coach [2007], then as a technical adviser to the Boks [2012], then forwards coach to the Boks.

He's a young guy for a coach, but he has lots of experience. Hiring a good coach is never a waste of money, but why does a guy with 15 years experience as a pro coach need another coach who essentially doubles his role ["a multi-purpose brief across all ... posts"]? He currently has Flannery as the Forwards Coach, Jones as the Backline and Attack Coach and Ferreira as the Defence Coach ... and he's the Head Coach.

I don't think it's fair to sh*t on van Graan because he's asking for help, but I don't think making a critical analysis of the situation is the same as sh*tting on somebody. In my opinion, van Graan might have been better off looking to bring in somebody experienced [as that is what he seems to be looking for] as a consultant. Saracens brought in Eddie Jones previously under that title; Cheika did the same with Rif. It's impossible to tell from the outside what the dynamics were in either situation, but it has to have been better than two of the three assistant coaches getting the hump and turning down the contracts offered to them.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Speaking of Girv, heard he's staying with Bath but I wonder if Munster should have been interested?

[olaf the fat]

You'd imagine there's lots of coaches that are now letting everybody know that they're staying put!

A Munster coaching job cant be that much fun. There are lots of other clubs offering high level experience, but with much better ratio of squad depth & quality Vs toxic levels of expectation.

[ronk]

Lancaster was a replacement for McQuilkin, a late and desperate move.

And in the Golden rule for successful coach changes in Leinster, it was a significant change to an unconventional coaching structure.

Joe came as defense, backs and head coach. Backed up by scrum, forwards and skills coach. On his first head coaching gig! Matt O’Connors first mistake was taking on the same roles.

van Graan has a lot of experience but if he has a coaching structure strategy he isn’t really articulating it.

[Oldschool]

Some interesting pieces in the IT of late I wonder if there are some more serious issues behind the scenes. The piece on Rassie was definitely a surprising line to take

I wonder if Nucifora is cracking the Budget line and so many players means cost cuts elsewhere in the camp.

Also maybe a case of a "use it or lose it" policy being applied.

[Oldschool]

Lancaster was a replacement for McQuilkin, a late and desperate move.

And in the Golden rule for successful coach changes in Leinster, it was a significant change to an unconventional coaching structure.

Joe came as defense, backs and head coach. Backed up by scrum, forwards and skills coach. On his first head coaching gig! Matt O’Connors first mistake was taking on the same roles.

van Graan has a lot of experience but if he has a coaching structure strategy he isn’t really articulating it.

Lancaster and desperate does not compute.
Any club with any kind of brain should have been biting a hand or two off to sign Lancaster.
Given your undoubted rugby knowledge, I'm quite prepared to admit I may have misunderstood your meaning btw.

[ronk]

Bill Johnstone heading up north. Should be a good move for him. They know how to play young outhalves up there. Hopefully it inspires munster to play some of their u20s next yesr. Realistically he has three senior ouhalves ahead of him at munster and only one gets international call ups. Making Keatley carry the blame didnt help their youth any.

Connacht know what to do with young scrum halves if theres anyone down there not wanting to go to Leinster but lookimg at the shopping being done in front of him...

Do they? Based on what? They gave Paddy Jackson a shot when he was up against Ian Humphreys. They played McPhillips a bit when they absolutely had to but Johnson is third outhalf who's been signed by Ulster to avoid playing McPhillips.