The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

[blockhead]

Is there a health and safety issue that they don’t open the end terraces in Thomond?
Being serious though it looks a shockingly small crowd

14K is the official "attendance". Although I think that figure might be tickets sold.
It's a big stadium though, it could be correct.
Maybe Tom could give his opinion on it.

[tomthefan]

Is there a health and safety issue that they don’t open the end terraces in Thomond?
Being serious though it looks a shockingly small crowd

14K is the official "attendance". Although I think that figure might be tickets sold.
It's a big stadium though, it could be correct.
Maybe Tom could give his opinion on it.

10K max would be my guess.
Wish they'd copied the Michelin and not a scaled down sydney olympic stadium or
whatever it was.

[RAILWAY1]

I was at the game last evening and would have thought a bit over the 13000 would have been about right

[tomthefan]

Anyone know the capacities of the various terraces in Thomond Park?
I know they all sum to 11k but have never seen a breakdown of it.

[blockhead]

Interesting few weeks for the franchise coming up.
Exeter away is a daunting prospect for anyone, and the home side had an extra days rest too. Glocks at home would have to be a 5 pointer you would think.
After that then they will have to employ some serious rotation of the squad. Glasgow at home is their next game in the Pro14 and if they lose that then they can kiss goodbye to a home semi, even after only 7 games, the Warriors will be beyond the horizon.
Munster are 9th in the combined table, 0 points on the road.

[suisse]

"Munster" have continually punched above their weight in recent years. 4 semis and a final in the last 2 years. Pity their incredible achievements go unsupported by a large proportion of their disillusioned fan base who seem to think they underachieved. Already people questioning JVG a month into his first full term. That refusal to accept a heavy defeat despite being the inferior team will be evident again in Exeter. I expect the Chiefs to pound Munster but they'll somehow leave Sandy Park with a losing bonus point. And with the 5 point hammering of glaws they'll be in the driving seat for qualification. It is remarkable how this team just doesn't give. On paper they are better than they have been for a long time.

[Oldschool]

"Munster" have continually punched above their weight in recent years. 4 semis and a final in the last 2 years. Pity their incredible achievements go unsupported by a large proportion of their disillusioned fan base who seem to think they underachieved. Already people questioning JVG a month into his first full term. That refusal to accept a heavy defeat despite being the inferior team will be evident again in Exeter. I expect the Chiefs to pound Munster but they'll somehow leave Sandy Park with a losing bonus point. And with the 5 point hammering of glaws they'll be in the driving seat for qualification. It is remarkable how this team just doesn't give. On paper they are better than they have been for a long time.

A very good summary and likely to be an accurate prediction for the Exeter match.

[Flash Gordon]

"Munster" have continually punched above their weight in recent years. 4 semis and a final in the last 2 years. Pity their incredible achievements go unsupported by a large proportion of their disillusioned fan base who seem to think they underachieved. Already people questioning JVG a month into his first full term. That refusal to accept a heavy defeat despite being the inferior team will be evident again in Exeter. I expect the Chiefs to pound Munster but they'll somehow leave Sandy Park with a losing bonus point. And with the 5 point hammering of glaws they'll be in the driving seat for qualification. It is remarkable how this team just doesn't give. On paper they are better than they have been for a long time.

That's a fair assessment, they have punched above their weight and ability. To be fair, their fan base is pretty good but they completely over estimated their ability to draw a crowd. For the economics to work they'd have to be filling their stadium but that entails drawing in 15% of the population of Limerick - the Dublin equivalent would mean Leinster pulling in over 200k! So the issue isn't really the support rather that they built a stadium that was way too big and expensive.

[offshorerules]

I'm not sure they'll come away with a bonus point. The fact that POM is scrummaging illegally has now been pointed out and you can be sure the touch judges will be keeping an eye out for it. Also although their new Kiwi looks handy enough Murray is still a big loss. I expect Exeter's pack to be dominant so I can see Joey having a tough day at the office also. Either Munster will out-perform and pull off another miracle win or Exeter to win by +10. I think the latter is more likely.

[tomthefan]

Personally I thought Munster were the better side on Saturday.
So I'm hopeful for a losing BP this week but not confident.

[tomthefan]

Pity their incredible achievements go unsupported by a large proportion of their disillusioned fan base who seem to think they underachieved.

Must you recycle this in every single post?

[RAILWAY1]

As long as Ben Whitehouse is nowhere near Sandy Park we have some chance, both sides played some great rugby on Saturday but as usual the match is about Mr Whitehouse or so he seems to think

[blockhead]

As long as Ben Whitehouse is nowhere near Sandy Park we have some chance, both sides played some great rugby on Saturday but as usual the match is about Mr Whitehouse or so he seems to think

I dunno Railway1, Exeter are a very good team. We caught them on the hop last season when we went there I believe. They'll be ready this time. Best of luck though, love to see you turn them over. What would SJones think about that?

RE Whitehousegate. When/if his performance is reviewed by his peers, the only thing they'll be pointing out to him is the illegal binding by POM.
He got those 2 Earls calls spot on.

[fourthirtythree]

I think Exeter have done more rotation than normal, just from match reports, and the mood music from them is that they want to rectify their failure last year. Actually 5here seem to have been a fair amount of weakened teams in England this year just as we have gone with stronger than normal.

They are dangerous and consistently excellently coached. I knew that before they ran us close in their first European match in the RDS.
that said, Munster in Europe are a different beast and the set piece and pack were good on Saturday. Hope Exeter are in for a surprise.

[COYBIB]

Munster fans losing their sh*t over the ref, I think he had a poor enough game, but I don't think it was in any way one sided, but I get their frustration, there were some pretty unlucky calls that they could have gotten away with another day, the Earls "try" for example, he got the decision right but for the wrong reason, the ball came off the Munster player in the tackle, he gave it as intentional which it wasn't, but as Earls was ahead of the player it came off, he's offside and it's a penalty.

The other decision for the penalty try and yellow card, I simply have no idea where there is even a hint of ambiguity there, it's a stone wall yellow card and penalty try, he tackled the player before the ball, hindered him from collecting it, the letter of the law is to remove that player from play and is it likely a try would have been scored (not CERTAN!), the answer is 100% Earls prevented a probable try, yellow card and penalty try.

But all that aside, I'm surprised to see such heart taken from the game by Munster players and staff, talking about their best performance etc... I mean they were fully loaded against a team resting some of its best players, we kept them at arms length with relative ease and pulled away again whenever they closed the gap. I don't think Leinster got even close to getting out of second gear, we coasted really and it wasn't an overly complicated game plan, just the basics executed well, other than a maul, Munster really have few weapons. O'Mahony in the scrum is borderline hilarious.

[tomthefan]

But all that aside, I'm surprised to see such heart taken from the game by Munster players and staff, talking about their best performance etc

The reason for that is because we'd have a totally different opinion to you regarding this :

Munster fans losing their sh*t over the ref, I think he had a poor enough game, but I don't think it was in any way one sided

[Dave Cahill]

Munster fans losing their sh*t over the ref, I think he had a poor enough game, but I don't think it was in any way one sided, but I get their frustration, there were some pretty unlucky calls that they could have gotten away with another day, the Earls "try" for example, he got the decision right but for the wrong reason, the ball came off the Munster player in the tackle, he gave it as intentional which it wasn't, but as Earls was ahead of the player it came off, he's offside and it's a penalty.

The other decision for the penalty try and yellow card, I simply have no idea where there is even a hint of ambiguity there, it's a stone wall yellow card and penalty try, he tackled the player before the ball, hindered him from collecting it, the letter of the law is to remove that player from play and is it likely a try would have been scored (not CERTAN!), the answer is 100% Earls prevented a probable try, yellow card and penalty try.

But all that aside, I'm surprised to see such heart taken from the game by Munster players and staff, talking about their best performance etc... I mean they were fully loaded against a team resting some of its best players, we kept them at arms length with relative ease and pulled away again whenever they closed the gap. I don't think Leinster got even close to getting out of second gear, we coasted really and it wasn't an overly complicated game plan, just the basics executed well, other than a maul, Munster really have few weapons. O'Mahony in the scrum is borderline hilarious.

"Munster" need to cling to result and the idea that the ref did them down, because the alternative, the reality in fact, is too chilling to contemplate. The reality is that the only thing the ref got wrong, in terms of outcomes at least, was not penalising "Munster" at each and every scrum. Take the two tries that "Munster" scored from those, unquestionably illegally formed, scrums out of it and you have a situation where despite having the lions share of possession, they were unable to have any real impact on an understrength Leinster team playing well within itself. Thats not what you need going into a game against the best team in England. So when you know that you don't have a chance in a match in rugby terms, you have to create a narrative and a motivation outside of that. You have to find a way to put the chip back in the fryer.

[tomthefan]

"Munster"

Man: Would you sleep with me for $100, 000?
Woman: No!
Man: Would you sleep with me for $1,000,000 then?
Woman: I would, I suppose.
Man: Would you sleep with me for $100?
Woman: What kind of girl do you think I am!
Man: We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price.

Your best player on Saturday wasn't from Leinster.

[blockhead]

Munster fans losing their sh*t over the ref, I think he had a poor enough game, but I don't think it was in any way one sided, but I get their frustration, there were some pretty unlucky calls that they could have gotten away with another day, the Earls "try" for example, he got the decision right but for the wrong reason, the ball came off the Munster player in the tackle, he gave it as intentional which it wasn't, but as Earls was ahead of the player it came off, he's offside and it's a penalty.

The other decision for the penalty try and yellow card, I simply have no idea where there is even a hint of ambiguity there, it's a stone wall yellow card and penalty try, he tackled the player before the ball, hindered him from collecting it, the letter of the law is to remove that player from play and is it likely a try would have been scored (not CERTAN!), the answer is 100% Earls prevented a probable try, yellow card and penalty try.

But all that aside, I'm surprised to see such heart taken from the game by Munster players and staff, talking about their best performance etc... I mean they were fully loaded against a team resting some of its best players, we kept them at arms length with relative ease and pulled away again whenever they closed the gap. I don't think Leinster got even close to getting out of second gear, we coasted really and it wasn't an overly complicated game plan, just the basics executed well, other than a maul, Munster really have few weapons. O'Mahony in the scrum is borderline hilarious.

"Munster" need to cling to result and the idea that the ref did them down, because the alternative, the reality in fact, is too chilling to contemplate. The reality is that the only thing the ref got wrong, in terms of outcomes at least, was not penalising "Munster" at each and every scrum. Take the two tries that "Munster" scored from those, unquestionably illegally formed, scrums out of it and you have a situation where despite having the lions share of possession, they were unable to have any real impact on an understrength Leinster team playing well within itself. Thats not what you need going into a game against the best team in England. So when you know that you don't have a chance in a match in rugby terms, you have to create a narrative and a motivation outside of that. You have to find a way to put the chip back in the fryer.

Put the toothpaste back in the tube was the one EOS used last night on OTB.
Look, its like this everytime we beat them. "We waz robbed" "the ref stiffed us". It's tradition, and they have it down to a fine art at this stage since we beat them so often.
7 wins in the last 8.
17 wins in the last 23, and 5 wins each in "fortress TP" in that period.
In 7 barren seasons for the TPFKAM, we have won 2 Heinos, 1 Challenge cup and 3 Pro12/14s.

[Peg Leg]

Put the toothpaste back in the tube was the one EOS used last night on OTB.
Look, its like this everytime we beat them. "We waz robbed" "the ref stiffed us". It's tradition, and they have it down to a fine art at this stage since we beat them so often.
7 wins in the last 8.
17 wins in the last 23, and 5 wins each in "fortress TP" in that period.
In 7 barren seasons for the TPFKAM, we have won 2 Heinos, 1 Challenge cup and 3 Pro12/14s.

As someone who does not enjoy or (edit: a bit harsh) follow GAA, I would not imagine that the Dublin dominance of the All Ireland is helping the Dublin centric narrative often espoused on here by our (exclusively) Munster compatriots.

We have advantages of... Lansdowne ... road network ... geography...team's feeder schools .... location... population... centrally contracted players...

Importantly though, I believe we have an ethos built on controllables like, planning for the future, respect, effort, team and method. Any given week Leinster put out a team built around a plan and the players selected are there because they are best suited to deliver to the plan. The skills have been practiced and the drills perfected.

And whilst I don't doubt that Munster have an appreciation of all of those things, I think they have come to that reality too late for where the game is currently at. They continue to rely on something extra, something you can't grasp but when it clicks on the pitch it's called passion, in preparation it's a "backs against the wall" mentality. It's like they are owed for the effort, not questioning the inputs and outputs to improve (across the organisation). The biggest problem with this is, that narrative is wholly embraced by the media and every swallow sighted is the return of summer, until it's not, it's a swallow that got lost from the flock and just happened to pass overhead, an anomaly.
The media is where Munster have excelled, the gra for Munster in print/on air is inescapable and it is a credit to them that they have monopolised the translation of loss into some kind of moral armoury for supporters and calls to action for the officials in the game, to protect Munster. Alas, they have become the faith healers of the devout, promising a cure without any real effort, psychic healers using slight of hand to extract chicken gizzards that look like tumours from that body of despair. Once cured of last weeks ailment the "backs against the wall" mentality is back, with a renewed passion.