The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby EarthGorilla » October 25th, 2018, 6:05 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Conway got a really bad steer when he was tapped up mid contract. He held his career back by years transferring to Munster where he was behind higher profile players. Their back three at the time included Earls, Zebo, and Howlett.

So there is that.


But he was a self proclaimed "Lunster" you see.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Oldschoolsocks » October 25th, 2018, 8:02 pm

EarthGorilla wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Conway got a really bad steer when he was tapped up mid contract. He held his career back by years transferring to Munster where he was behind higher profile players. Their back three at the time included Earls, Zebo, and Howlett.

So there is that.


But he was a self proclaimed "Lunster" you see.


He did in his hole support munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby fourthirtythree » October 25th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Yeah he came up with that very recently. Never an issue before. The management got someome to talk to him.

He's a Munster player now, as all of ours down there are, they're pros and they'll fit into the team and culture and buy in as much as anyone else whether that be Dougie Howlett or AN van der Other. But in his hole when he was a youngster.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby RAILWAY1 » October 26th, 2018, 12:27 am

An unfortunate consequence of the game going fully professional is that players will move to other clubs if they see it as a way to progress their careers just like any other job, they can still have great pride in the club / team they play for but their minds have to be on what they can earn in a relatively short career.
I have noticed this even at the so called amateur AIL level in Limerick where in the past players stayed with the club they joined when they started playing as kids but now they are moving around as they get better offers from other clubs. The game we all love has changed beyond recognition so instead of making snide comments about other provinces we should just support our own and concentrate on the real enemies the English and the French
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Ruckedtobits » October 26th, 2018, 9:19 am

RAILWAY1 wrote:An unfortunate consequence of the game going fully professional is that players will move to other clubs if they see it as a way to progress their careers just like any other job, they can still have great pride in the club / team they play for but their minds have to be on what they can earn in a relatively short career.
I have noticed this even at the so called amateur AIL level in Limerick where in the past players stayed with the club they joined when they started playing as kids but now they are moving around as they get better offers from other clubs. The game we all love has changed beyond recognition so instead of making snide comments about other provinces we should just support our own and concentrate on the real enemies the English and the French


I never see the French Clubs or the FFR as our "enemy". They have always believed their League is the best and they blame the Club Owners for the demise of the National team. They have, gradually, come to accept the Irish as a strong rugby nation, the change in our nickname in the media is one indication of this respect. The Irish team is now referred to more often as "The Green Machine".

On the other hand, the English rugby establishment resent the Irish success, both of our Clubs and National team. They cannot accept that their market driven model and the numerical strength of their game has not produced the dominance, and financial success, they expected and feel they have a right to achieve.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby tomthefan » October 26th, 2018, 9:25 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
EarthGorilla wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Conway got a really bad steer when he was tapped up mid contract. He held his career back by years transferring to Munster where he was behind higher profile players. Their back three at the time included Earls, Zebo, and Howlett.

So there is that.


But he was a self proclaimed "Lunster" you see.


He did in his hole support munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College


Why wouldn't he, you all did at the time. :wink:
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby tomthefan » October 26th, 2018, 9:28 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:
RAILWAY1 wrote:On the other hand, the English rugby establishment resent the Irish success, both of our Clubs and National team. They cannot accept that their market driven model and the numerical strength of their game has not produced the dominance, and financial success, they expected and feel they have a right to achieve.


Voted for us for the world cup unlike our "celtic cousins", they're the ones with the chips on their shoulders.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Dave Cahill » October 26th, 2018, 11:52 am

Team to play the Weegies

"Munster": Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Sammy Arnold, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; JJ Hanrahan, Alby Mathewson; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony (C), Chris Cloete, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Fineen Wycherley, Arno Botha, Neil Cronin, Ian Keatley, Darren Sweetnam.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 26th, 2018, 12:04 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:"Munster":


:lol:

Good to see Cronin back, thought he'd be out for ages.

JJ at ten just baffles me.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 12:55 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Conway got a really bad steer when he was tapped up mid contract. He held his career back by years transferring to Munster where he was behind higher profile players. Their back three at the time included Earls, Zebo, and Howlett.

So there is that.


Howlett coming to the end of his career? As far as I can recall, Conway signed a contract to move to Munster in January after which Leinster had a load of injuries that gave him his opportunity to play in various finals that Leinster were playing in. He started 1 HC game up to that (v. Exeter) and the only game he started in the Amlin was the final (up to that, he played 21 minutes in the competition from the bench).
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 1:00 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
EarthGorilla wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Conway got a really bad steer when he was tapped up mid contract. He held his career back by years transferring to Munster where he was behind higher profile players. Their back three at the time included Earls, Zebo, and Howlett.

So there is that.


But he was a self proclaimed "Lunster" you see.


He did in his hole support munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College


I think you might be surprised by the number of Leinster players of a certain vintage supported Munster up to about 2009. As far as I can recall, Conway's father is/was a Munster fan and Conway went to Munster matches with him. I personally remember meeting some underage Leinster players (all decked out in Munster gear) at the HCup final in 2008.

With the number of people from Munster living and working in Dublin, its hardly surprising that their kids might grow up as Munster supporters.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 1:48 pm

EarthGorilla wrote:
Andrew Conway is an awful one for you to use. His last 2 games for Leinster were the Challenge Cup Final and the Pro 12 Final. Hardly AIL.

Cronin is another poor example. He played a grand total of 2 career games for Munster, and went to Connacht to get opportunities and then wound up with us. Exact same route as Tadgh Beirne or Robin Copeland. Nobody is complaining about them.

There is no replica of the Carbery situation for you to try to use in reverse to justify. The go to manual has been the previous for Conway, who was out of contract, but not starved of opportunity, the aforementioned Cronin / Beirne parallel. The other one is perceived precedent with Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan. But Munster got Niall Ronan and another whose name currently eludes me so it was not a one sided deal.

The issue here, is that Munster approached a contracted Leinster player without consequence and what we are seeing and hearing now is that the Carbery move has emboldened them to continue down this path. I fully expect them to make representations for one of Deegan or Doris. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried for Jack McGrath and Andrew Porter. You know, for the benefit of the national team. Until this cr@p is nipped in the bud by the IRFU, which it won't, then Leinster fans will continue to see Munster as a joke and be vocally angry about it.


I'm not trying to justify the moves. You should show a bit more respect to the players who move for whatever reason. Staying at one province because its the province they were born in is not a great justification for staying there, particularly if they think their opportunities to be the best they can be are limited.

Anyway, since when has rugby become like the GAA where you stay with your original club no matter what? Have you not noticed that Tony Ward was playing for Munster in the 70s and there was plenty of movement between AIL clubs. You really talk a lot of cr@p about Carbery moving to Munster against his will. The only reason Carbery moved to Munster was because he saw it as a good career option and so far it looks like it was a good decision for him. Who knows, maybe he will move back to Leinster in a few years time - in the meantime, he is getting gametime at his chosen positition - Munster are giving him every opportunity to develop where it wasn't working out that way for him when he was with Leinster.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby johng » October 26th, 2018, 2:08 pm

janeymac08 wrote:Munster are giving him every opportunity to develop where it wasn't working out that way for him when he was with Leinster.

And jolly decent of them it is too. Now if only HE could do something for them....
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby EarthGorilla » October 26th, 2018, 2:16 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
EarthGorilla wrote:
Andrew Conway is an awful one for you to use. His last 2 games for Leinster were the Challenge Cup Final and the Pro 12 Final. Hardly AIL.

Cronin is another poor example. He played a grand total of 2 career games for Munster, and went to Connacht to get opportunities and then wound up with us. Exact same route as Tadgh Beirne or Robin Copeland. Nobody is complaining about them.

There is no replica of the Carbery situation for you to try to use in reverse to justify. The go to manual has been the previous for Conway, who was out of contract, but not starved of opportunity, the aforementioned Cronin / Beirne parallel. The other one is perceived precedent with Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan. But Munster got Niall Ronan and another whose name currently eludes me so it was not a one sided deal.

The issue here, is that Munster approached a contracted Leinster player without consequence and what we are seeing and hearing now is that the Carbery move has emboldened them to continue down this path. I fully expect them to make representations for one of Deegan or Doris. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried for Jack McGrath and Andrew Porter. You know, for the benefit of the national team. Until this cr@p is nipped in the bud by the IRFU, which it won't, then Leinster fans will continue to see Munster as a joke and be vocally angry about it.


I'm not trying to justify the moves. You should show a bit more respect to the players who move for whatever reason. Staying at one province because its the province they were born in is not a great justification for staying there, particularly if they think their opportunities to be the best they can be are limited.

Anyway, since when has rugby become like the GAA where you stay with your original club no matter what? Have you not noticed that Tony Ward was playing for Munster in the 70s and there was plenty of movement between AIL clubs. You really talk a lot of cr@p about Carbery moving to Munster against his will. The only reason Carbery moved to Munster was because he saw it as a good career option and so far it looks like it was a good decision for him. Who knows, maybe he will move back to Leinster in a few years time - in the meantime, he is getting gametime at his chosen positition - Munster are giving him every opportunity to develop where it wasn't working out that way for him when he was with Leinster.


Now we are citing the amateur era and the GAA? Jesus Christ. 8)

I have been very clear that my issue here is contracts. Carbery was under contract beyond last June with Leinster, was not centrally contracted, and yet Munster got him for nothing.

If he was out of contract then your point stands. It's a slippery slope when we are now at the point where Munster can look at the other 3 provinces and the contract situation is deemed irrelevant.

I think you do know exactly the point I am making, but you are still "not justifying the moves".
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Oldschoolsocks » October 26th, 2018, 2:39 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
I think you might be surprised by the number of Leinster players of a certain vintage supported Munster up to about 2009. As far as I can recall, Conway's father is/was a Munster fan and Conway went to Munster matches with him. I personally remember meeting some underage Leinster players (all decked out in Munster gear) at the HCup final in 2008.

With the number of people from Munster living and working in Dublin, its hardly surprising that their kids might grow up as Munster supporters.


So just to reiterate the point, and without dropping names, it’s a fact that he did in his hole support Munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College

I don’t doubt your recollection, but it reads almost word for word as the piece on the42 where he confessed his love of turnips, tanora and all things south of Laois/Offaly and west of Kilkenny
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 5:12 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
I think you might be surprised by the number of Leinster players of a certain vintage supported Munster up to about 2009. As far as I can recall, Conway's father is/was a Munster fan and Conway went to Munster matches with him. I personally remember meeting some underage Leinster players (all decked out in Munster gear) at the HCup final in 2008.

With the number of people from Munster living and working in Dublin, its hardly surprising that their kids might grow up as Munster supporters.


So just to reiterate the point, and without dropping names, it’s a fact that he did in his hole support Munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College

I don’t doubt your recollection, but it reads almost word for word as the piece on the42 where he confessed his love of turnips, tanora and all things south of Laois/Offaly and west of Kilkenny


I wasn't claiming that he was strolling around Blackrock College supporting Munster. I'm claiming that outside school he might have been. Plenty of players now with Leinster will tell you that they were in Cardiff in 2006/08 with their Munster supporting parents. Tommy Bowe is another one who was there (even though he was playing with Ulster at the time) with his father (who is from Munster).
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 5:19 pm

EarthGorilla wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
EarthGorilla wrote:
Now we are citing the amateur era and the GAA? Jesus Christ. 8)

I have been very clear that my issue here is contracts. Carbery was under contract beyond last June with Leinster, was not centrally contracted, and yet Munster got him for nothing.

If he was out of contract then your point stands. It's a slippery slope when we are now at the point where Munster can look at the other 3 provinces and the contract situation is deemed irrelevant.

I think you do know exactly the point I am making, but you are still "not justifying the moves".


There are only 2 eras - amateur and professional - when it seems to have been acceptable. Another one would be Liam Toland (a former Leinster captain) who straddled both eras.

So you would be happy then if Munster had paid compensation :lol:

You seem to be just pissed off that Munster seems to be an attractive place for players to go to. Would you prefer if he did what Madigan did?
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby EarthGorilla » October 26th, 2018, 6:02 pm

janeymac08 wrote:So you would be happy then if Munster had paid compensation :lol:


Why is that funny? European soccer model would have a transfer fee. US soccer model would have trades. Other rugby countries would be forced to hold off until those contracts expired. :lol: indeed.

If he were centrally contracted then sure, but he wasn't and isn't.

Munster are going to benefit a lot while we are going to suffer. Munster didn't send anyone the other direction or pay anything, they just said "we want him, screw the contract" and they got it.

janeymac08 wrote:You seem to be just pissed off that Munster seems to be an attractive place for players to go to. Would you prefer if he did what Madigan did?


I'd prefer if Munster were not approaching contracted Leinster players without repercussion.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby janeymac08 » October 26th, 2018, 7:00 pm

EarthGorilla wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:So you would be happy then if Munster had paid compensation :lol:


Why is that funny? European soccer model would have a transfer fee. US soccer model would have trades. Other rugby countries would be forced to hold off until those contracts expired. :lol: indeed.

If he were centrally contracted then sure, but he wasn't and isn't.


You need to listen to Nigel Owens - This is not soccer!

Munster are going to benefit a lot while we are going to suffer. Munster didn't send anyone the other direction or pay anything, they just said "we want him, screw the contract" and they got it.


I don't think that is how it happened. My understanding is that Joe & Nucifora told Leinster that they were going to have to decide between Joey and Ross Byrne and that Ulster had an opening for an outhalf. Leinster made their choice but Joey was hesitatent about going to Ulster. Munster then put their hand up and the rest is history.

Read about it here: https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schm ... ery-162005

janeymac08 wrote:I'd prefer if Munster were not approaching contracted Leinster players without repercussion.


I think the present management put Ireland first and Joey is putting his Ireland career first.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Oldschoolsocks » October 26th, 2018, 7:04 pm

janeymac08 wrote:
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:
I think you might be surprised by the number of Leinster players of a certain vintage supported Munster up to about 2009. As far as I can recall, Conway's father is/was a Munster fan and Conway went to Munster matches with him. I personally remember meeting some underage Leinster players (all decked out in Munster gear) at the HCup final in 2008.

With the number of people from Munster living and working in Dublin, its hardly surprising that their kids might grow up as Munster supporters.


So just to reiterate the point, and without dropping names, it’s a fact that he did in his hole support Munster as a young fella strolling around Blackrock College

I don’t doubt your recollection, but it reads almost word for word as the piece on the42 where he confessed his love of turnips, tanora and all things south of Laois/Offaly and west of Kilkenny


I wasn't claiming that he was strolling around Blackrock College supporting Munster. I'm claiming that outside school he might have been. Plenty of players now with Leinster will tell you that they were in Cardiff in 2006/08 with their Munster supporting parents. Tommy Bowe is another one who was there (even though he was playing with Ulster at the time) with his father (who is from Munster).


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