The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby paddyor » January 12th, 2019, 1:56 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Poite's view of the scrum is always the same, if you go forward you get the penalty. At one stage in the first half they showed a replay from the sideline and it was so obvious what Kilcoyne was doing that you could actually see him driving across through the gap in the tunnel, his legs were heading straight for the sideline, and yet Poite couldn't pick that up despite being on that side and only a couple of feet away. I'm no scrum expert but his inability to spot even the most basic infringement is genuinely astonishing.

Gloucester were beyond pathetic. They looked threatening out wide early on, so what did they do? Tried to pick and go their way to victory despite being sent packing for most of the game. Cipriani is really talented and I get that letting him run the game can be great at times, but tonight was not one of those times. They were completely rudderless and kept heading into trouble as a result. Obviously their handling was woeful too, some of the fielding reminded me of Henry Paul shitting bricks in Thomond.

Munster were really good though and think they would have dominated even if they had been up against a half decent team. They got things spot on tactically, the forwards won every collision, Murray and Joey had their best games of the season, they brought the back three into the game, and their discipline and work rate in defence was excellent. This game could be the catalyst for a big finish to the season, thought it was by far their best performance of the season.

Have to disagree, I thought their back 3 were terrible. Wasted space, on-top of which they couldn't catch a ball and faked tackles(the Scannell try was shocking).
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby leinster10 » January 12th, 2019, 2:35 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Poite's view of the scrum is always the same, if you go forward you get the penalty. At one stage in the first half they showed a replay from the sideline and it was so obvious what Kilcoyne was doing that you could actually see him driving across through the gap in the tunnel, his legs were heading straight for the sideline, and yet Poite couldn't pick that up despite being on that side and only a couple of feet away. I'm no scrum expert but his inability to spot even the most basic infringement is genuinely astonishing.

Gloucester were beyond pathetic. They looked threatening out wide early on, so what did they do? Tried to pick and go their way to victory despite being sent packing for most of the game. Cipriani is really talented and I get that letting him run the game can be great at times, but tonight was not one of those times. They were completely rudderless and kept heading into trouble as a result. Obviously their handling was woeful too, some of the fielding reminded me of Henry Paul shitting bricks in Thomond.

Munster were really good though and think they would have dominated even if they had been up against a half decent team. They got things spot on tactically, the forwards won every collision, Murray and Joey had their best games of the season, they brought the back three into the game, and their discipline and work rate in defence was excellent. This game could be the catalyst for a big finish to the season, thought it was by far their best performance of the season.


Pretty pathetic post, Munster scrum dominated because Kilcoyne dominated the tight head, Poite is probably the best ref to Monitor a scrum in the game. Call it what it was. Munster owned a top 4 premiership team and made them look average.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Dave Cahill » January 12th, 2019, 2:44 am

leinster10 wrote:Pretty pathetic post, Munster scrum dominated because Kilcoyne dominated the tight head, Poite is probably the best ref to Monitor a scrum in the game. Call it what it was. Munster owned a top 4 premiership team and made them look average.


Poite is a dreadful referee at the scrum. He refs momentum and not whats actually happening. He is truly terrible. He's consistent, certainly, and a clever team can work out how to get on his good side, but he's a hopeless incompetent at scrum time - we're talking Changleng, Fitzgibbon levels of hopelessness. The only thing in his favour is that he is consistent - he referees every scrum in every game the same way - so at least if you do your video work beforehand you know how to play him like a piano
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 12th, 2019, 10:24 am

paddyor wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:They looked threatening out wide early on, so what did they do? Tried to pick and go their way to victory despite being sent packing for most of the game.

Have to disagree, I thought their back 3 were terrible. Wasted space, on-top of which they couldn't catch a ball and faked tackles(the Scannell try was shocking).


What are you disagreeing with? They looked a threat when they moved the ball and that's Cirpriani's strength, yet they kept it tight despite getting no change out of the Munster pack. If plan A doesn't work, why keep doing it? Not being smart but it was 15-41...their game plan did not work.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 12th, 2019, 10:31 am

leinster10 wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Poite's view of the scrum is always the same, if you go forward you get the penalty. At one stage in the first half they showed a replay from the sideline and it was so obvious what Kilcoyne was doing that you could actually see him driving across through the gap in the tunnel, his legs were heading straight for the sideline, and yet Poite couldn't pick that up despite being on that side and only a couple of feet away. I'm no scrum expert but his inability to spot even the most basic infringement is genuinely astonishing.

Gloucester were beyond pathetic. They looked threatening out wide early on, so what did they do? Tried to pick and go their way to victory despite being sent packing for most of the game. Cipriani is really talented and I get that letting him run the game can be great at times, but tonight was not one of those times. They were completely rudderless and kept heading into trouble as a result. Obviously their handling was woeful too, some of the fielding reminded me of Henry Paul shitting bricks in Thomond.

Munster were really good though and think they would have dominated even if they had been up against a half decent team. They got things spot on tactically, the forwards won every collision, Murray and Joey had their best games of the season, they brought the back three into the game, and their discipline and work rate in defence was excellent. This game could be the catalyst for a big finish to the season, thought it was by far their best performance of the season.


Pretty pathetic post, Munster scrum dominated because Kilcoyne dominated the tight head, Poite is probably the best ref to Monitor a scrum in the game. Call it what it was. Munster owned a top 4 premiership team and made them look average.


I'll ignore your praise of Poite because there's no point arguing it, I've had that opinion for years and he reinforces it in every game he refs. But I wasn't saying that he gave Munster everything, I was just saying that he hasn't a clue and Kilcoyne was the obvious example (particularly because he's always scrummaging illegally), he gave Gloucester penalties too.

Perhaps you were so enraged by my accurate assessment of Poite that you missed my last paragraph, but I did praise Munster and said that it wasn't just that Gloucester made them look good but that they were really impressive in their own right.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby ronk » January 12th, 2019, 10:37 am

Pathetic is a strong word for when you just disagree with someone.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby wixfjord » January 12th, 2019, 11:03 am

Poite had a bit of a mare alright. Complete lottery at times.

Missing an obvious crooked throw from a Munster lineout and allowing Murray to run in on the 9 when the ball wasn't out didn't help Glos, but they were soundly beaten in any case.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby tomthefan » January 12th, 2019, 11:55 am

I thought that Poite had a reputation for being good at reffing the scrum? At least there weren't umpteen resets, he pretty quickly forms a view on each scrum collapse and penalises accordingly.
Couple of iffy lineout throws and forward passes but it evened out imo. He's a good ref, the game flowed.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby wixfjord » January 12th, 2019, 12:19 pm

tomthefan wrote:I thought that Poite had a reputation for being good at reffing the scrum? At least there weren't umpteen resets, he pretty quickly forms a view on each scrum collapse and penalises accordingly.
Couple of iffy lineout throws and forward passes but it evened out imo. He's a good ref, the game flowed.


I'm not so sure it evened out. The Murray incident led directly to a try at a key moment, and iirc the skew lineout did too.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby fourthirtythree » January 12th, 2019, 1:09 pm

Didn't he indicate the ball was out? There's no Murray incident in that case, he was just more aware and quicker to react which is one of his great strengths.

I think he's a pretty good ref bar the scrums which he is consistent with. You should always go forward at all costs (such as wheeling when your tight head buckles under the pressure and is on his knees). Gloucester could have done that too I suppose. Gloucester weren't very good anyway, and Munster were. Absolutely dominated that game.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby wixfjord » January 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Didn't he indicate the ball was out? There's no Murray incident in that case, he was just more aware and quicker to react which is one of his great strengths.



He indicated ball was out but it wasn't. He admitted just afterwards that he didn't see a Glos guy who was creating a bridge for his scrum half.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby paddyor » January 13th, 2019, 3:41 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
paddyor wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:They looked threatening out wide early on, so what did they do? Tried to pick and go their way to victory despite being sent packing for most of the game.

Have to disagree, I thought their back 3 were terrible. Wasted space, on-top of which they couldn't catch a ball and faked tackles(the Scannell try was shocking).


What are you disagreeing with? They looked a threat when they moved the ball and that's Cirpriani's strength, yet they kept it tight despite getting no change out of the Munster pack. If plan A doesn't work, why keep doing it? Not being smart but it was 15-41...their game plan did not work.

I thought the back 3 were terrible, wasted space and weren't that good at creating it. There's not one of them I'd pick to beat a man one on one.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby ronk » January 13th, 2019, 9:06 am

Interesting and really in-depth article on demented mole about squad sizes. Munster still have a much bigger squad than all the other provinces.

There's a strong case that squad size is affecting player development and has been doing so.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Jackie Brown » January 13th, 2019, 9:41 am

OTT wrote:Is it because most of us have stories from when Munster were dominant and we were the D4 team with no heart :roll: members of their fan base were patronizing and condescending git’s towards us (I include Munster friends in my personal experience). And now that they are not where they once were they live for Leinster results and jump on a loss or a bad performance like it was them winning a 3rd Heineken Cup. You could be watching a Leinster match in a pub anywhere in the world and there would be a Munster fan in a jersey hoping they would lose. I think the arrogance probably came from when Cork Con, Garryowen and Shannon dominated the AIL back in the day, I would go with my dad when I was a kid to games and it was easy to spot the arseholes at even a young age.

I just don’t see that level of spite with other teams like Connacht and Ulster. Like in my personal experience for every Jackie Brown ( :wink: ) you could get 100 roosters in Ulster and the same with Connacht fans, good hearted Craic and banter, the spite just isn’t there, you get the same with most big teams in England, success has not defined their behavior. We probably react a bit childish to some fans but it’s hard not to indulge the temptation at times. And as always there are good guys who get caught in the cross fire eg dropkick on this board but they usually understand what’s going on and who the posts are aimed at.

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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Laighin Break » January 13th, 2019, 12:23 pm

wixfjord wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Didn't he indicate the ball was out? There's no Murray incident in that case, he was just more aware and quicker to react which is one of his great strengths.



He indicated ball was out but it wasn't. He admitted just afterwards that he didn't see a Glos guy who was creating a bridge for his scrum half.


Didn't the first replay look like the ball was in, but then the second replay showed it was out?
I'm not really sure how the rule works but the Gloucester player at the back adjusted his foot by lifting it up and putting it further back. When his foot is in the air, I assume it's no longer the hind most foot(?)
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 13th, 2019, 1:48 pm

paddyor wrote:I thought the back 3 were terrible, wasted space and weren't that good at creating it. There's not one of them I'd pick to beat a man one on one.


There's more to moving the ball wide than just the back three though, not sure why you're zeroing in on that. Use the centres, get Cipriani to pick up second touches etc etc.

Keeping it tight was dumb.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 16th, 2019, 12:39 pm

Keatley to Treviso confirmed. It'll be interesting to see who they sign to bench for A games.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby neill_m » January 16th, 2019, 1:06 pm

Decent move for Keatley. Nice part of the world, get to experience new culture etc. He was 5th choice behind Carbery, Hanrahan, Bleyendaal and Johnston. Will most likely get gametime in Italy during the International windows when Allen/McKinley are away etc.
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby olaf the fat » January 18th, 2019, 4:46 pm

In fairness, Keatley is a decent player and did some really good work for Munster, but shipped some about of sh!t from the brave and the faitfull. He carried himself with class throughout. Good business by Treviso
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Re: The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

Postby Oldschool » January 19th, 2019, 10:27 am

More Munster Hyperbole.
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