Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

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Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby curates_egg » January 8th, 2019, 9:01 am

Discussions going on about the Heineken cup bis bis.
On the table apparently:
- 4 pool games only
- Dropping to 16 teams
- Home and away semi finals.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... SApp_Other

'Player welfare' and too many games is the excuse they are giving this time.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby sunshiner1 » January 8th, 2019, 9:34 am

Eventually they'll demand it go down to two and those teams names be Bath and Saracens. Ridiculous garbage as always.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby harblstuff » January 8th, 2019, 10:01 am

curates_egg wrote:Discussions going on about the Heineken cup bis bis.
On the table apparently:
- 4 pool games only
- Dropping to 16 teams
- Home and away semi finals.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... SApp_Other

'Player welfare' and too many games is the excuse they are giving this time.


The PRL is a private business full of private clubs all of whom have one interest: their bottom line.

Their product is the domestic English league, not international tests, the 6 Nations or the European Cup. They don't care, they flog their players then demand the rest of us kowtow to their demands of shortening international competitions (club and international) because they are too incompetent to get their house in order regarding player welfare.

The PRL and their clubs talking about player welfare is like a lion saying the meat he eats shouldn't be slaughtered in an abattoir as it's doesn't take into account animal welfare, he should get the animals delivered to him alive so he can do it humanely.

This, like all of their other proposals to gut tours, competitions and the international game, will die.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby ronk » January 8th, 2019, 10:16 am

Funnipy enough they are also talling about conferences in PRL as a way to end relegation.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby tomthefan » January 8th, 2019, 12:16 pm

From the article:
One possibility is for the pool stages to be reduced from six to four matches per team, with the semi-finals possibly being played over two home and away legs as happens in football. This might well involve reducing the number of competing teams from 20 to 16, which would not go down well among those potentially excluded.


Four pool matches per team implies pools or three teams instead of four as is currently the case.
But 16 divided by 3 = 5.33333, hmmm tricky.

You'd still need 6 weekends (same as now) to play out all the games in a pool though because each pool would have a total of six matches but only
one match could be played each weekend and one team would be idle.

Sounds like a right dog's dinner of an idea.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby dropkick » January 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm

On the positive side, fewer games is good for the pro14.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby tomthefan » January 8th, 2019, 6:49 pm

dropkick wrote:On the positive side, fewer games is good for the pro14.


I'd be happier with fewer games against the southern kings and the dragons rather than fewer games in the H cup.
It's disappointing the way the SA teams have gone backwards this season
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby Oldschool » January 8th, 2019, 6:54 pm

dropkick wrote:On the positive side, fewer games is good for the pro14.

Not sure I'd agree.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby paddyor » January 8th, 2019, 6:59 pm

IMO the club season is too long(the French don't care about this) but really the fat is in the domestic comp. If they've any ambition to grow the audience in the US or elsewhere they need to trim their season down from 24 rounds.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 8th, 2019, 8:45 pm

Let's just sit on our hands for a while and watch the next re-negotiation of the Top 14 & GP TV rights. Certainly the current indications are that the French value will fall by 25% at least whilst BT may consider more money towards Premiership football is better value than the GP rugby, which is not attracting either Subscribers or Advertisers, according to those who "wholesale" sports ads in the UK.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby Oldschool » January 8th, 2019, 10:16 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Let's just sit on our hands for a while and watch the next re-negotiation of the Top 14 & GP TV rights. Certainly the current indications are that the French value will fall by 25% at least whilst BT may consider more money towards Premiership football is better value than the GP rugby, which is not attracting either Subscribers or Advertisers, according to those who "wholesale" sports ads in the UK.

International rugby tends to draw significantly larger attendances and viewing numbers than club rugby.
The HEC is the next best thing to international rugby.
It should be and I think it is a bigger draw than club rugby and yet the PRL, in particular, is trying to undermine both international rugby and the HEC in the misguided opinion that this will help their league to grow.
Or.......
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby dropkick » January 8th, 2019, 11:21 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Let's just sit on our hands for a while and watch the next re-negotiation of the Top 14 & GP TV rights. Certainly the current indications are that the French value will fall by 25% at least whilst BT may consider more money towards Premiership football is better value than the GP rugby, which is not attracting either Subscribers or Advertisers, according to those who "wholesale" sports ads in the UK.



It would be great for world rugby if that happened, especially the Top 14 getting less money. Ease the pressure a bit on the unions.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby nc6000 » January 9th, 2019, 3:37 pm

Maybe they should ease up in training if player welfare is so important to them.

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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » January 12th, 2019, 9:06 pm

pro14 did pretty well this weekend in the HC....7 wins out of 7. wouldn't be surprised if the english/french argue for a reduction of the pro14 teams in the comp.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby johng » January 13th, 2019, 10:53 am

Only 5 of the teams have played and the other 2 are playing eachother.

So guaranteed 6 out of 7 unless there's a draw in Glasgow
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » January 13th, 2019, 12:13 pm

johng wrote:Only 5 of the teams have played and the other 2 are playing eachother.

So guaranteed 6 out of 7 unless there's a draw in Glasgow


you're right..6 out of 7.

gap in class between pro14 and premiership teams like gloucester and leicester is growing.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby paddyor » January 13th, 2019, 8:32 pm

Todd Blackadder bemoaning the PRO14 resting players. If I were a club owner I’d be livid with that crap. They increased the salary cap a few years ago and the teams have gone backwards. It’s mostly down to coaching (Tigers, Saints, Quins have all brought in new coaches) with the result that the league isn’t as strong as it was. So more mediocre teams are getting in that usually wouldn’t. The table looks like it’ll be the same next year though there’s still time for them to improve. Wasps look to be on a downward curve with none of the signings looking up to the standard of the players they were meant to replace.

Apparently when Matfield offered to chip in with his lineout expertise, Dorian West told him to pope down and do what he’s told. WTF did they sign him for? They’re gonna piss away the CVC money on 4 marquee players as well.

I’m sure when the cycle changes we’ll be hearing about how the GP prepares teams for HEC rugby.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby fourthirtythree » January 14th, 2019, 12:21 am

And Ian McGeechin in the Tory graph arguing that England should follow the irish model as focusing on player welfare by rotating your internationals out to not overplay them has the advantage of meaning young players get the experience they need. He cites James Ryan, Leavy, Stockdale, and the moving of Carbery leading to his display on Friday and the abject performances of English teams in Europe at the moment.

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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby blockhead » January 14th, 2019, 1:01 am

fourthirtythree wrote:And Ian McGeechin in the Tory graph arguing that England should follow the irish model as focusing on player welfare by rotating your internationals out to not overplay them has the advantage of meaning young players get the experience they need. He cites James Ryan, Leavy, Stockdale, and the moving of Carbery leading to his display on Friday and the abject performances of English teams in Europe at the moment.

English club owners will be English club owners and if they ever say anything true it will be by accident, not intention.


I think a new excuse might start creeping into the discussion fairly soon.
"How high is europe on the agenda of english clubs"?
The constant need to brand the prem as the greatest competiton in world rugby requires very flexible arguments. Relegation, a pillar of Prem greatness could soon become the obvious disadvantage that english clubs must unfairly endure against the Union backed Celtic (spit) and the unsalary-capped top 14 teams.
The future of European Rugby will always be in doubt if the Pro14 teams are successful.
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Re: Heineken Cup 3.0 - fewer teams?

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 14th, 2019, 1:37 pm

The last few posts have got me thinking...what was the last really good English team aside from Saracens? A team that consistently got out of their European group and you worried about playing? I'm struggling!
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