Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Neither Hart or Williams are HEC level SHs and barely P14 tbh. The Matheson signing showed the weakness/stupidity of the NIQ rules. Williams has never looked anything near the required level for the irish team but Munster kept him because they had to. Simialrly Munster signed Hart because he was IQ but aside from one appearance in MO's team of the week a few years ago has he ever looked like a potential international. You can point to Pieenaar being moved on for cooney being the big win but he could've moved south.
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Paddy, have to disagree with you here on a couple of counts.paddyor wrote:Neither Hart or Williams are HEC level SHs and barely P14 tbh. The Matheson signing showed the weakness/stupidity of the NIQ rules. Williams has never looked anything near the required level for the irish team but Munster kept him because they had to. Simialrly Munster signed Hart because he was IQ but aside from one appearance in MO's team of the week a few years ago has he ever looked like a potential international. You can point to Pieenaar being moved on for cooney being the big win but he could've moved south.
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
Nobody is forcing you to watch Duncan Williams play for Ireland. He's retired now and he was never selected for them, or on a central contract, or even in a training squad to the best of my knowledge! That's a complete red herring.
Williams is 33 and put in 150+ games for Munster, his home province. It was the guy's ambition and his career, and he put a lot into it. He wasn't at the top end of his profession in a relatively small market, but loads of people in their respective professions aren't in the top 5%; they're still entitled to make a living from it.
I never thought much of him as a pro scrum-half, but in fairness to him, he had a pretty long innings, at least one excellent European game [against Exeter last season] and Munster produced a great scrum-half [Murray] while he was in situ ... he didn't block anybody's progress. I don't see that the problem is. He wasn't that good? I don't care. He didn't play for us!
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Williams drew the hate from the Munster faithful as they didn't think he was good enough. Why should we dis him here? A decent pro and reliable backup who played second fiddle to the best scrum half Ireland have had in my memory.
Alby on the other hand IS and actually HAS blocked Irish talent. Having him to play when your international is away is not good business for the iRFU and given the way their moving Leinster players South project imploded miserably at the WC they really should face a critical review.
de Allende will block Irish young players too. Though, to be fair, I don't think Scannell is international standard. But he certainly is good enough for when the internationals are away.
Alby on the other hand IS and actually HAS blocked Irish talent. Having him to play when your international is away is not good business for the iRFU and given the way their moving Leinster players South project imploded miserably at the WC they really should face a critical review.
de Allende will block Irish young players too. Though, to be fair, I don't think Scannell is international standard. But he certainly is good enough for when the internationals are away.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Matheson was signed as cover for Murray following his neck injury, iirc.
Logically when Murray was declared fit, Matheson's contract shouldn't have been extended.
However Matheson's contract was extended, why?
It's likely that there was a lot of uncertainty regarding Murray making a full recovery.
IMHO there still is and hence Matheson's contract extensions.
Murray's form since his injury and during the recent RWC has been less than reassuring.
Logically when Murray was declared fit, Matheson's contract shouldn't have been extended.
However Matheson's contract was extended, why?
It's likely that there was a lot of uncertainty regarding Murray making a full recovery.
IMHO there still is and hence Matheson's contract extensions.
Murray's form since his injury and during the recent RWC has been less than reassuring.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
The question is, why bring Hart back from France if he was barely P14 level. Truth is he was making his way in Top14 with Grenoble and the Stade (or was it Racing) so he was good enough. But like many before him his improvement curve turned negative when he went to Munster.paddyor wrote:Neither Hart or Williams are HEC level SHs and barely P14 tbh. The Matheson signing showed the weakness/stupidity of the NIQ rules. Williams has never looked anything near the required level for the irish team but Munster kept him because they had to. Simialrly Munster signed Hart because he was IQ but aside from one appearance in MO's team of the week a few years ago has he ever looked like a potential international. You can point to Pieenaar being moved on for cooney being the big win but he could've moved south.
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
Never argue with an idiot. Someone looking on may not be able tell the difference
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Logically from a squad development perspective he shouldnt have been extended.Oldschool wrote:Matheson was signed as cover for Murray following his neck injury, iirc.
Logically when Murray was declared fit, Matheson's contract shouldn't have been extended.
However Matheson's contract was extended, why?
It's likely that there was a lot of uncertainty regarding Murray making a full recovery.
IMHO there still is and hence Matheson's contract extensions.
Murray's form since his injury and during the recent RWC has been less than reassuring.
From a will the team be stronger on the days he on the team sheet sense - it was a no brainer.
Which logic is in the IRFUs best interest? Clearly they should want to see development of players with limited exceptions.
For Nucifora, he can recruit IQ and projects to Munster instead of to Connacht development province or he can bet his career on them fixing their academy pipeline. If he goes against Munster public opinion hard then he is betting his career because they'll blame him if things go South.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
I see the Pro 14 have put a neutral official in charge of the Munster Ulster game on Saturday, former Munster player Frank Murphy. Not the 1st time he has got a home inter pro at Thomond Park...
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Good post Neill. I stuck in the current contract duration as far as I know themneill_m wrote:Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, 2020 Fardy, 2020 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, 2021 Carter, 2021 Coetzee 2022
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, 2020 Porch, Dunno 3 NIQ - Butler 2022 Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga Dunno and Horwitz 2020 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, 2020 Mathewson, 2019 (allegedly) 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Hart's star had fallen very far before Munster found him in the bargain binTrapperChamonix wrote:The question is, why bring Hart back from France if he was barely P14 level. Truth is he was making his way in Top14 with Grenoble and the Stade (or was it Racing) so he was good enough. But like many before him his improvement curve turned negative when he went to Munster.paddyor wrote:Neither Hart or Williams are HEC level SHs and barely P14 tbh. The Matheson signing showed the weakness/stupidity of the NIQ rules. Williams has never looked anything near the required level for the irish team but Munster kept him because they had to. Simialrly Munster signed Hart because he was IQ but aside from one appearance in MO's team of the week a few years ago has he ever looked like a potential international. You can point to Pieenaar being moved on for cooney being the big win but he could've moved south.
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
Daniel Sullivan
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Cloete signed an extension as well to 2022.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
I don't think Williams was of much benefit to the national team whatever about his province. But we had rules to promote Irish layers and one of those players was Williams. Maybe a tad harsh to single him out but I think it's a good illustation of the dysfunction the NIQ rules incentivize. It's after the fact analysis but you could've signed Matheson 3 years ago and he wouldn't have been blocking any emerging talent. There was one SH whose career was blighted by injury and had to retire early. Irish rugby wouldn't have been any worse off if Matheson had been starting games in place of Williams 3 years ago.hugonaut wrote:Paddy, have to disagree with you here on a couple of counts.paddyor wrote:Neither Hart or Williams are HEC level SHs and barely P14 tbh. The Matheson signing showed the weakness/stupidity of the NIQ rules. Williams has never looked anything near the required level for the irish team but Munster kept him because they had to. Simialrly Munster signed Hart because he was IQ but aside from one appearance in MO's team of the week a few years ago has he ever looked like a potential international. You can point to Pieenaar being moved on for cooney being the big win but he could've moved south.
It's probably a good thing they signed Matheson and admitted defeat on the Williams front tbh. Are we really that keen to see the likes of Williams in a green jersey?
Nobody is forcing you to watch Duncan Williams play for Ireland. He's retired now and he was never selected for them, or on a central contract, or even in a training squad to the best of my knowledge! That's a complete red herring.
Williams is 33 and put in 150+ games for Munster, his home province. It was the guy's ambition and his career, and he put a lot into it. He wasn't at the top end of his profession in a relatively small market, but loads of people in their respective professions aren't in the top 5%; they're still entitled to make a living from it.
I never thought much of him as a pro scrum-half, but in fairness to him, he had a pretty long innings, at least one excellent European game [against Exeter last season] and Munster produced a great scrum-half [Murray] while he was in situ ... he didn't block anybody's progress. I don't see that the problem is. He wasn't that good? I don't care. He didn't play for us!
To give another example Ulster signed Sean Doyle as an IQ flanker. He was nothing special had a few good games for Ulster then went back to Oz before Munster signed him as medical joker for 3 months because he was IQ and weren't allowed to use him.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
The benefit of the NIQ rules is that it forces provinces to develop their own players. Short term pain, long term gain. I think they've gotten the balance right over the years although it's probably a system that could still be improved.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Ah would ya stop.dropkick wrote:The benefit of the NIQ rules is that it forces provinces to develop their own players. Short term pain, long term gain. I think they've gotten the balance right over the years although it's probably a system that could still be improved.
In other news, Joey is out for a bit. Can someone hide Ross and Harry's passports.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
Joey, will miss the first two rounds of the HCC and is a doubt for rounds 3 and 4 also.
Solution sign a RWC medal winning centre on a short term contract.
That's a Munster style short term contract probably.
Solution sign a RWC medal winning centre on a short term contract.
That's a Munster style short term contract probably.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
We were sold a dud!
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
You keep on breaking themtomthefan wrote:We were sold a dud!
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
You paid nothing.tomthefan wrote:We were sold a dud!
You could perhaps have argued you got what you paid for.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
There's blowing smoke up someones arse....
The red army will love this.
And there's really blowing smoke up someones arse.Larkham “Somebody asked me that the other day and I think the talent, the skill level over here (Munster) is probably better than it is in Australia . . . .
The red army will love this.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020
He's probably right, "blowing smoke up someone's arse" is a real talent.blockhead wrote:There's blowing smoke up someones arse....And there's really blowing smoke up someones arse.Larkham “Somebody asked me that the other day and I think the talent, the skill level over here (Munster) is probably better than it is in Australia . . . .
The red army will love this.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.