Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Morf » November 4th, 2019, 7:08 pm

blockhead wrote:That's a lot of money for a franchise in debt. I would assume that some of the other foreign legion will be offloaded so as to meet their 6+1 quota?


Munster laughs at your assumptions of how the player pathway and NIQ signings/re-signings should work.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 4th, 2019, 7:10 pm

Morf wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That's some signing, he's arguably the best 12 in the world right now. I feel for Niall Scannell but realistically they need an upgrade in that position.


A lot of meat in that argument.

De Allende has been lucky to have his place for SA for quite a while and has hit a purple patch. Wouldn't be hugely surprising to see him return to par.


Very true, I was never sure about him until the last year or so. He'll still be better than Scannell (the correct one) and Goggin though even if he does regress.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby ronk » November 4th, 2019, 8:27 pm

blockhead wrote:That's a lot of money for a franchise in debt. I would assume that some of the other foreign legion will be offloaded so as to meet their 6+1 quota?


They have to offload some Irish players before that sort of thing is allowed.

He's a wow signing. They have promising centre options but it's not any more a position of depth than anywhere else.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby wixfjord » November 4th, 2019, 9:01 pm

The De Allende signing would make complete sense. They really need some class there.

Snyman would be strange one. Would mean either Kleyn or Beirne not starting big games.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Theleinsterlad » November 4th, 2019, 9:05 pm

Munster has become the Pro14’s version of Montpellier. No sorry don’t even need to stretch that far, they should change their colours to white and recall themselves ULSTER 2.0. Crazy the number of SA players they now have, it hasn’t worked for any other club and is so short sighted. Connaught are now the next best team after Leinster to develop players
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby wixfjord » November 4th, 2019, 9:14 pm

I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Oldschool » November 4th, 2019, 9:52 pm

These sort of and amount of signings are bad for the national team.
Has this been slipped in during the national coach regime change??
The new national coach can't be happy about this sort of carry on!
The red army were quick enough to refer to Joe as Blue Joe when he wasn't selecting their liginds but it didn't stop them undermining his need to build depth for the national squad.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby johng » November 4th, 2019, 11:55 pm

Neither Munster nor Leinster have any niq players signed past 2020. So both are free to sign 3 players they fancy.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby johng » November 4th, 2019, 11:59 pm

wixfjord wrote:I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.

Bleyendaal qualified for Ireland a couple of years ago. Marshall is already iq. Cloete and Lowe qualify in 2020
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Oldschool » November 5th, 2019, 12:00 am

johng wrote:Neither Munster nor Leinster have any niq players signed past 2020. So both are free to sign 3 players they fancy.

How many project players has each province and when are they due to come on stream is a related issue/problem.
You read my question before I posted.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby neill_m » November 5th, 2019, 8:36 am

Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Last edited by neill_m on November 5th, 2019, 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby wixfjord » November 5th, 2019, 9:54 am

johng wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.

Bleyendaal qualified for Ireland a couple of years ago. Marshall is already iq. Cloete and Lowe qualify in 2020



Sorry yes I meant Mathewson not Bleyendaal!
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby blockhead » November 5th, 2019, 10:32 am

Don't forget Holloway.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby ChrisUppy » November 5th, 2019, 11:41 am

neill_m wrote:Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.

Also Matt Moore for Munster, I guess qualifying in 2020
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby cormac » November 5th, 2019, 11:45 am

ChrisUppy wrote:
neill_m wrote:Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.

Also Matt Moore for Munster, I guess qualifying in 2020


Pretty sure that Matt Moore has left Munster already.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby leinsterforever » November 5th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Yeah, More done gone home.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby blockhead » November 5th, 2019, 4:20 pm

Munster Rugby have issued a statement surrounding their 'potential' signings of World Cup winning Springbok pair Damian de Allende and RG Snyman.
"In reference to reports about the province signing the World Cup-winning Springbok duo of Damian de Allende and RG Snyman, Munster Head Coach Johann van Graan said: “We are in advanced discussions with both players, but there are no contracts signed at this stage.
“We are confident there will be a commitment in the future, subject to conditions, but at this stage no contracts have been signed and we have nothing official to confirm.”
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby TrapperChamonix » November 5th, 2019, 8:19 pm

neill_m wrote:..........
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.


Mathewson is like Brexit the number of extensions he's got.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Peg Leg » November 5th, 2019, 11:33 pm

blockhead wrote:Munster Rugby have issued a statement surrounding their 'potential' signings of World Cup winning Springbok pair Damian de Allende and RG Snyman.
"In reference to reports about the province signing the World Cup-winning Springbok duo of Damian de Allende and RG Snyman, Munster Head Coach Johann van Graan said: “We are in advanced discussions with both players, but there are no contracts signed at this stage.
“We are confident there will be a commitment in the future, subject to conditions, but at this stage no contracts have been signed and we have nothing official to confirm.”
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby joooooe » November 5th, 2019, 11:40 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:
neill_m wrote:..........
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.


Mathewson is like Brexit the number of extensions he's got.


Matheson encompasses everything wrong in Munster rugby. Conor Murray was injured at the start of last season so Munster asked for a short term signing and got former All Black Alby Mathewson as short term cover. They could, of course, have chosen to play any of the other three scrum halves they had on their books (Cronin, Hart or Williams) or, God forbid, one of their academy scrum halves (Craig Casey is the bee's knees imo), but, no, they took the money option. Murray came back fit in November but Mathewson hung around in an extended contract and played ahead of the other three 9s, but benched for Murray in big games. Then, his contract was extended to the end of the season, for no reason other than it turns out he's handy. Cronin, meanwhile, is kicking his heels for the A team and not developing (much like Hart and Williams before him). Then, in a short space of time, Munster announce the signing of McCarthy from Leinster, extend Mathewson's contract AGAIN through the World Cup and let Hart and Williams go. In the last regular league match of the season Casey gets 10 mins off the bench after being called up as a late injury replacement.

Munster's 9s are now Murray, Mathewson, Cronin, McCarthy and Casey. The World Cup is over and Mathewson is still there. The justification is that the other scrum halves aren't experienced enough to be relied on for the big games, but they won't get experience if you don't give them game time. Leinster, to make a comparison have McGrath, Gibson-Park, Patterson, O'Sullivan and Osborne all with senior team time and of course brought through McCarthy in the same period. In my opinion none of these are currently "world class" but the solution is not to parachute in a replacement but to work with what you have. When McGrath gets an international call up (c.f. Murray) or McCarthy gets injured you simply whistle for the next cab off the rank.

But Munster feel they have a need to win every match and so compromise long term development in order to do so. The flaw in this system is that they don't win every match, at least not the big knock out games and come the next season they haven't developed the players necessary to go again, so they look to big money signings and the process starts all over again.
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