Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 12th, 2019, 3:30 pm

I was in favour of the De Allende move last week but the rumours about Bundee leaving made me rethink that. Even if there's nothing in those rumours, he's 29 so will be 33 for the next World Cup.

Tomane looks like he's nailed the backup 12 spot at Leinster so that could cause issues for COB and Frawley this season. Munster don't have anyone else coming through at 12 and even if they did they'd obviously be blocked by De Allende. I don't see Robb or Tom Farrell (who I do like) as being options at international level. Ulster have McCloskey but he's already 27 and obviously didn't impress Joe too much.

So actually we don't have many talented 12s who are going to be getting a lot of games over the next few years. If Bundee goes then the backup option at 12 could well be whoever is the backup to Henshaw at Leinster, not ideal.

I'm not in favour of Leinster losing COB or Frawley, but I'm just saying that Ireland might have a problem at 12 in a year or two.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby paddyor » November 12th, 2019, 9:47 pm

Isn't Tomane out the door at the end of this year?
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Dave Cahill » November 12th, 2019, 10:15 pm

ronk wrote:
For the sake of 1 match (that we lost anyway) they directly affected approx 10 years of a guys career and Leinster's use of a potential franchise player for the same period.

Leinster have to plan a new replacement for Sexton (or Kearney), Munster tossed their brightest star at 10 for years on the scrapheap and the IRFU broke the improved coordination between provinces over the last 10 years.


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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby ronk » November 12th, 2019, 10:25 pm

Maybe it isn't so bad with de Allende. Munster don't have anyone coming through as far as I can see. We had 4 good centres at this RWC. It's better if we have Aki but if a contract can't be worked out then too bad.

I like McCloskey anyway. Farrell can slot 12 or pair with a play-making 12. COB is coming on quickly and there was a lot of talent this year at 20s. Next year might be soon but next RWC, thry could be experienced.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 12th, 2019, 11:36 pm

paddyor wrote:Isn't Tomane out the door at the end of this year?


Yep, hence why I said "so that could cause issues for COB and Frawley this season".
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 12th, 2019, 11:42 pm

ronk wrote:Maybe it isn't so bad with de Allende. Munster don't have anyone coming through as far as I can see. We had 4 good centres at this RWC. It's better if we have Aki but if a contract can't be worked out then too bad.

I like McCloskey anyway. Farrell can slot 12 or pair with a play-making 12. COB is coming on quickly and there was a lot of talent this year at 20s. Next year might be soon but next RWC, thry could be experienced.


I can't share your optimism about the other options.

It definitely will be a problem if Robbie is the only international quality player playing 12 in the Champions cup for a season or two. His injury record is poor and that could offer opportunities to COB ad Frawley, but that's what it'll take. COB will be 24 in February and it's entirely possibly he won't start a European game until at least next season.

Maybe I phrased it poorly but what I was getting at was that whilst I don't want to lose more players, I think the IRFU should be looking to move one of them. Admittedly it's much less of a concern if Bundee stays, although that's just for the short term, long term is still an issue.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Morf » November 13th, 2019, 3:42 am

Slightly off-topic but with all the Byrne/centre moves elsewhere is there an argument for moving one of our young locks to Connacht on a loan with their injury issues?
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Dave Cahill » November 13th, 2019, 9:44 am

Morf wrote:Slightly off-topic but with all the Byrne/centre moves elsewhere is there an argument for moving one of our young locks to Connacht on a loan with their injury issues?


Their most pressing need is for their upcoming European games which would lead to any players who were sent on loan being cup-tied. I'd be against that - we have to look after our own contingencies first and foremost
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby wixfjord » November 13th, 2019, 10:10 am

I think this is something the IRFU should look at, but it's a delicate process alright. Wouldn't like to see Baird go for example because he could be cup tied and might be at a Euro level later in the season. Maybe someone like Charlie Ryan?
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby leinsterforever » November 13th, 2019, 11:36 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
ronk wrote:Maybe it isn't so bad with de Allende. Munster don't have anyone coming through as far as I can see. We had 4 good centres at this RWC. It's better if we have Aki but if a contract can't be worked out then too bad.

I like McCloskey anyway. Farrell can slot 12 or pair with a play-making 12. COB is coming on quickly and there was a lot of talent this year at 20s. Next year might be soon but next RWC, thry could be experienced.


I can't share your optimism about the other options.

It definitely will be a problem if Robbie is the only international quality player playing 12 in the Champions cup for a season or two. His injury record is poor and that could offer opportunities to COB ad Frawley, but that's what it'll take. COB will be 24 in February and it's entirely possibly he won't start a European game until at least next season.

Maybe I phrased it poorly but what I was getting at was that whilst I don't want to lose more players, I think the IRFU should be looking to move one of them. Admittedly it's much less of a concern if Bundee stays, although that's just for the short term, long term is still an issue.


Is this contingent on Aki leaving? Cos where would one of them fit in otherwise? Connacht have Aki, Robb, Godwin and Tom Daly, Munster will have de Allende, Scannell and Arnold if he stays on and Ulster have McCloskey and Hume.

I'd like to see Frawley looked at primarily as a fullback now that Harry Byrne looks the goods at 10. Playing like Carbery was would suit his skilset, I think.

Henshaw's injury profile would probably make Leinster the best place for COB to get gametime once Tomane goes.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Twist » November 13th, 2019, 2:16 pm

paddyor wrote:Isn't Tomane out the door at the end of this year?


If he is then I'd take Aki in a heartbeat
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby blockhead » November 13th, 2019, 5:04 pm

Ben Healy added to the Munster Heino squad.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Morf » November 13th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Morf wrote:Slightly off-topic but with all the Byrne/centre moves elsewhere is there an argument for moving one of our young locks to Connacht on a loan with their injury issues?


Their most pressing need is for their upcoming European games which would lead to any players who were sent on loan being cup-tied. I'd be against that - we have to look after our own contingencies first and foremost


That's fair enough alright.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby dropkick » November 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm

blockhead wrote:Ben Healy added to the Munster Heino squad.



I had a good look at him for the Ireland U20s. A big prospect but he has a bit to learn.


His kicking from hand is a huge asset. The distance he gets is very impressive and it's something underrated in tight games. Can clear with both feet. Goal kicking looks very good too and he's able to score tries and use his 6'3 95kg frame to carry.


Where he needs to improve is his passing/linking with other players. There were some games that he struggled, got replaced by Flannery and the team attacked better.


There couldn't be a more perfect coach than Larkham to get that part of his game flowing. It might only take a few tweaks.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby dropkick » November 14th, 2019, 2:56 pm

Twist wrote:
paddyor wrote:Isn't Tomane out the door at the end of this year?


If he is then I'd take Aki in a heartbeat



Maybe teach himself and Henshaw the basics of catching and passing. ;)
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Oldschool » November 14th, 2019, 4:05 pm

dropkick wrote:
blockhead wrote:Ben Healy added to the Munster Heino squad.



I had a good look at him for the Ireland U20s. A big prospect but he has a bit to learn.


His kicking from hand is a huge asset. The distance he gets is very impressive and it's something underrated in tight games. Can clear with both feet. Goal kicking looks very good too and he's able to score tries and use his 6'3 95kg frame to carry.


Where he needs to improve is his passing/linking with other players. There were some games that he struggled, got replaced by Flannery and the team attacked better.


There couldn't be a more perfect coach than Larkham to get that part of his game flowing. It might only take a few tweaks.

On a technical level we have Lancaster, not disparaging Larkham however.....
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby paddyor » November 14th, 2019, 4:27 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
paddyor wrote:Isn't Tomane out the door at the end of this year?


Yep, hence why I said "so that could cause issues for COB and Frawley this season".

Fair enough but you also said this after it.

So actually we don't have many talented 12s who are going to be getting a lot of games over the next few years.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 14th, 2019, 4:46 pm

Yeah...because COB and Frawley will still be behind Robbie, De Allende will be at Munster, and the Connacht and Ulster lads aren't good enough IMO.

Not sure what you're not getting here, it would be better for Ireland if one of COB or Frawley were going to be starting games in Europe over the next couple of years.

Edit to add: Like I said, it's contingent on Aki's future but even if he stays he'll be 33 at the next World Cup so we could really do with another option elsewhere.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 14th, 2019, 8:05 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Yeah...because COB and Frawley will still be behind Robbie, De Allende will be at Munster, and the Connacht and Ulster lads aren't good enough IMO.

Not sure what you're not getting here, it would be better for Ireland if one of COB or Frawley were going to be starting games in Europe over the next couple of years.

Edit to add: Like I said, it's contingent on Aki's future but even if he stays he'll be 33 at the next World Cup so we could really do with another option elsewhere.


There's [b]four[b] 6N Tournaments before the next Rugby World Cup. November 2021 is the date we need to be looking at who are potential contenders for RWC2023.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 14th, 2019, 8:21 pm

I'm not just talking about the World Cup.
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