Ulster 2019-2020

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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 23rd, 2019, 2:11 am

Great win and great bottle. Good coaching performance.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Twist » November 23rd, 2019, 12:38 pm

That Cooney try was brilliant. You dont often see both feet being used in an individual try. Think he actually kicked the ball 3 times in that move
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 23rd, 2019, 12:54 pm

Twist wrote:That Cooney try was brilliant. You dont often see both feet being used in an individual try. Think he actually kicked the ball 3 times in that move


His skills for the try last week were great as well. Super win for Ulster, didn't think they had the strength in depth up front to get the job done for the 80 minutes but they were excellent. Coetzee got MOTM and it could have gone to Cooney, but I thought Jordi was the pick of the bunch. He carried really well and stole at least one really important lineout at the end.

Clermont were shocking. Even by french/Clermont standards that was a pathetic effort for the ages. McIntyre's performance really was one of the worst I've ever seen in Europe.

I think people get carried away with Cooney though tbh. I'm a fan and like I said I thought he was close to MOTM but the comments (not here) about it being a mistake not to bring him to Japan bug me. As good as his try was, how about the one he blew in the first half? Addison had loads of errors again too. Dropped balls, tackled into touch, slow to get back for the Raka non try, and should have been carded for the hit that led to a concussion.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 25th, 2019, 9:28 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Twist wrote:That Cooney try was brilliant. You dont often see both feet being used in an individual try. Think he actually kicked the ball 3 times in that move


His skills for the try last week were great as well. Super win for Ulster, didn't think they had the strength in depth up front to get the job done for the 80 minutes but they were excellent. Coetzee got MOTM and it could have gone to Cooney, but I thought Jordi was the pick of the bunch. He carried really well and stole at least one really important lineout at the end.

Clermont were shocking. Even by french/Clermont standards that was a pathetic effort for the ages. McIntyre's performance really was one of the worst I've ever seen in Europe.

I think people get carried away with Cooney though tbh. I'm a fan and like I said I thought he was close to MOTM but the comments (not here) about it being a mistake not to bring him to Japan bug me. As good as his try was, how about the one he blew in the first half? Addison had loads of errors again too. Dropped balls, tackled into touch, slow to get back for the Raka non try, and should have been carded for the hit that led to a concussion.


Pretty harsh assessment on Addison and Cooney @LRPH. The majority of the mistakes from Addison occurred because he was trying to be attacking or aggressive, rather than passive. Cooney's decision to go off his left foot away from the support on his left looked like a decision based on his support being too flat, or his perception that the last Clermont defender was moving towards the Ulster support runners and had turned his shoulders that direction.

As with James Ryan's decision not to pass right to a faster support runner, the option existed for only a millisecond and then wasn't available anymore. I'm happy for players like Addison and Cooney (and Ryan) to keep putting themselves into positions where those decisions have to made, rather than avoiding the opportunity.

JVdF blocked down a kick on Saturday and then stopped and collected the ball and IMMEDIATELY passed the ball to a player (Ryan) in motion. Last season I watched him block down a kick, stop to collect the loose ball and then try to accelerate away - only to be caught from behind.

Now is a great time for each of these guys to learn by mistakes what they can get away with at the faster level of European rugby. No doubt in both of those Provincial review rooms this morning, all three players will have coloured as their decisions were put under the microscope in front of their peers. Fortunately, in ease case it was in the aftermath of a victory!
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 27th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Obviously I disagree on both counts.

In terms of Cooney, it's not just my interpretation of the play unfolding that made me think he messed up, he even apologised to Jordi (who was fuming) when they were waiting for the next play. He had a really good game but I think it's amazing how some players' mistakes are completely ignored. And yes, for the amateur sleuths among you I'm getting at how Luke McGrath is harshly scapegoated at times. Do I think Luke played well on Saturday? No, he didn't, but he even got blamed for other people's mistakes and, for example, there was barely a mention of the two terrible errors that Ringrose made at the end. Cooney is good and would be my backup scrumhalf if Ireland had a game this weekend, but he's not the messiah and neither is Marmion who wasn't (and isn't likely to be when he returns from injury) clear first choice at Connacht.

With regard to Addison, I actually see what your saying about positive actions but I don't agree that the errors I mentioned counted as such. For example, I didn't mind the forward pass that he threw to deck on the Bath 22 last week. It was a really risky one and it didn't pay off, but he has the skills to do it and if it had bounced up/not gone forward then Ulster were in for a try. I've no issue with risks like that but the errors I listed were more basic than that and shouldn't have happened. And of course he has actually been cited for one of that tackle. Had he been rightly binned (or worse) then I doubt you'd be praising that tackle as a positive action.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 4:24 pm

Know where you're coming from, however.
In play errors are quite different to first phase possession.
Take Ryan's not passing, a good decision actually.
High risk, high reward, so at worst 50/50, in a tight game then err on lowering the risk.
Scrum half.
The number one attribute a good SH needs is a good pass.
On that basis, the ranking
1. Cooney
2 .Marmion
3. Murray
3. McGrath
Next up box kicking, then defence, set phase, game management, penalty kicks goal.
Without going into it it's obvious that Cooney is no. 1 by a comfortable margin.
Marmion would be in second place, Murray 3rd and McGrath 4th.
It's disappointing that McGrath is only 4th at 25 years of age because it's likely he is going to be passed out, even at Leinster, in next couple of years.
Already JGP looks a better bet but didn't want to muddy the waters.
Last edited by Oldschool on November 27th, 2019, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » November 27th, 2019, 4:25 pm

4 weeks for Addison
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby neill_m » November 27th, 2019, 5:13 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:4 weeks for Addison


Started at 6 weeks, contested the charge. Got 2 weeks off for previous clean record. Misses Scarlets, Quins x 2 and Leinster games. Unlikely to have played v Leinster regardless if available, A side usually sent down.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 6:43 pm

neill_m wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:4 weeks for Addison


Started at 6 weeks, contested the charge. Got 2 weeks off for previous clean record. Misses Scarlets, Quins x 2 and Leinster games. Unlikely to have played v Leinster regardless if available, A side usually sent down.

Stockdale to FB maybe or Ludik more likely, Gilroy the beneficiary.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 30th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Watching the Ulster game now and Marty really is getting better with every passing week. The Scarlets were rubbish but he looks mobile and hungry...for work. I'd love to see him back in the Irish squad now. There's no guarantees that he'll keep this up for the next few years but I'd say he's done enough over the last 12 months to earn a recall. I'd still be worried about his fitness but a recall might be the incentive he needs to keep up the good work.

This might be pie in the sky stuff but if we had Furlong and Marty in good form on the TH side and moved Porter to LH then we'd have some collection of props for the next few years.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 6th, 2019, 1:29 pm

Stockdale at fullback tomorrow, could be interesting from an Ireland point of view. I think it suits him and with Lowe qualifying soon you'd have to think that they'll be playing together at times.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby sunshiner1 » December 6th, 2019, 3:41 pm

by LeRouxIsPHat

Stockdale at fullback tomorrow, could be interesting from an Ireland point of view. I think it suits him and with Lowe qualifying soon you'd have to think that they'll be playing together at times.


Excited about this. Really hope he does well. Him, Earls and Lowe would be a lethal back three.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 7th, 2019, 4:39 pm

Saint Cooney blew a simple two on there because he was selfish again.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » December 7th, 2019, 4:59 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Saint Cooney blew a simple two on there because he was selfish again.


He is Schrödinger's Scrum Half.

He should both be in the Irish team and nowhere near it
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 7th, 2019, 5:03 pm

I've never heard a TMO come in for a forward pass like that before, great to see.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Ruckedtobits » December 7th, 2019, 5:12 pm

Irish players really have learned about eecution of "body ball". Ulster lads really fighting to get presentation as perfect as opossible which continues continuity of attack. Need to do switches earlier moving left to right as they have run out of space three times on that side.

Tough game and Ulster ( and Cooney) need to take every point.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 7th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Stockdale is playing pretty well but they're really missing Addison's hands as a second playmaker. As much as I'm critical of his mistakes, his handling is superb.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby fourthirtythree » December 7th, 2019, 5:27 pm

McCloskey deserved a try for his play today, he's been a real handful for Quins.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » December 7th, 2019, 6:13 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Saint Cooney blew a simple two on there because he was selfish again.


He is Schrödinger's Scrum Half.

He should both be in the Irish team and nowhere near it


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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Ruckedtobits » December 7th, 2019, 6:18 pm

That's a great fightback by Ulster. Quins last try was offside with player who intercepted never behind hindmost foot. But fair dos to Ulster. Real bottle and game smarts to get last maul try and then Cooney's 40mtr penalty. Excellent win. Mediocre performance but, Top of the Table in tough Pool.
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