Ulster 2019-2020

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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby wixfjord » January 3rd, 2020, 9:47 pm

Alan O'Connor again mouthing and costing his team 10 yards. Idiotic.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 9:50 pm

wixfjord wrote:Alan O'Connor again mouthing and costing his team 10 yards. Idiotic.


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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 9:53 pm

In fairness, its great to see such passion and desire from both sides to be the second best team in Ireland
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 3rd, 2020, 9:55 pm

Goggin should call the mark before this lineout is taken.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 10:01 pm

Good doggie throws stockdale one of his biscuits
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby ronk » January 3rd, 2020, 10:07 pm

hugonaut wrote:
O'Shea is a player that van Graan has got f*ck all from thus far; in fact, Munster as an organisation have done a really, really poor job in developing this guy as a player. Ireland don't produce many players of his dimensions, and height is such an important element in a second row's game that you can't afford to just put a lad like this on the back-burner and give him about half an hour/month. You've got to have a plan to progress him, and you've got to amend that pan when it's not working and push the player when he's not working to the plan. As we've probably all recently seen, second row is an expensive position to contract. When one arrives on your doorstep, you don't just wait around until he gets the hump and f*cks off.


O’Shea is 27. His signing was announced a few months before Kleyn. Kleyn was an instant hit and O’Shea was cheap so there was no huge need to invest in him to pay back the risk. He was let down the bottom of the depth chart.

There are good young players like Wycherley. Sure he lacks height but it’s not like height was seen as a reason they lost last week.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 3rd, 2020, 10:09 pm

Some of this Munster back play is appalling. Loads of movement and players in strange positions and running odd angles, but you know exactly who's getting the ball and the strike runner nearly always gets mullered.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 3rd, 2020, 10:20 pm

Munster have made enough stupid decisions in the last two games to make me seriously question what Van Graan is doing for this team. Obviously players can lose their heads when they're frustrated, but they look like they haven't a clue what they're doing and are constantly messing up as a result.

Even aside from the obvious mistakes, how many times have the outside backs looked up and just kicked aimlessly? They're clueless.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 10:25 pm

Thats a paddlin'
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 10:30 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Munster have made enough stupid decisions in the last two games to make me seriously question what Van Graan is doing for this team. Obviously players can lose their heads when they're frustrated, but they look like they haven't a clue what they're doing and are constantly messing up as a result.

Even aside from the obvious mistakes, how many times have the outside backs looked up and just kicked aimlessly? They're clueless.


Depends - are Munster an average side poorly coached, or a really poor side coached up to average?
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby FLIP » January 3rd, 2020, 10:33 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Munster have made enough stupid decisions in the last two games to make me seriously question what Van Graan is doing for this team. Obviously players can lose their heads when they're frustrated, but they look like they haven't a clue what they're doing and are constantly messing up as a result.

Even aside from the obvious mistakes, how many times have the outside backs looked up and just kicked aimlessly? They're clueless.


Depends - are Munster an average side poorly coached, or a really poor side coached up to average?


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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby enby » January 3rd, 2020, 10:33 pm

Ulster really impressive against a dreadful Munster. Their pack, lineouts apart, devoured them.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 3rd, 2020, 10:38 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Munster have made enough stupid decisions in the last two games to make me seriously question what Van Graan is doing for this team. Obviously players can lose their heads when they're frustrated, but they look like they haven't a clue what they're doing and are constantly messing up as a result.

Even aside from the obvious mistakes, how many times have the outside backs looked up and just kicked aimlessly? They're clueless.


Depends - are Munster an average side poorly coached, or a really poor side coached up to average?


There's an unknown there because of the form of some of their best players like Murray and Earls.

But the tactics/lack of ability to give a platform for Nick to kick last week, the disaster with Goggin on the wing tonight where he clearly isn't comfortable, continuously picking the penalty machine Cloete, not fixing the lateral play, not taking the penalty against Saracens, picking JJ last week when he's been struggling with a hamstring injury and then reinjured himself, and making a big deal of Mathewson being a loss to the squad and leaving a gap are all very obvious mistakes by the coaches IMO.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 10:45 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's an unknown there because of the form of some of their best players like Murray and Earls.

But the tactics/lack of ability to give a platform for Nick to kick last week, the disaster with Goggin on the wing tonight where he clearly isn't comfortable, continuously picking the penalty machine Cloete, not fixing the lateral play, not taking the penalty against Saracens, picking JJ last week when he's been struggling with a hamstring injury and then reinjured himself, and making a big deal of Mathewson being a loss to the squad and leaving a gap are all very obvious mistakes by the coaches IMO.


I dunno, there's only so much silk purse you can get out of a sows ear. I don't think that even Warren Gatland could get that Munster team looking anything more than bang average.

I actually feel sorry for Conor Murray - stuck behind that pack with a rotating cast of mediocrities outside him? Not easy.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 3rd, 2020, 10:48 pm

Yeah but regardless of what you think of the players it's obvious that the coaches are making big errors. A simple solution to one of things I mentioned above, switch Arnold and Goggin when it's clear that Goggin is in deep trouble.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby desperado » January 3rd, 2020, 10:50 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:In fairness, its great to see such passion and desire from both sides to be the second best team in Ireland

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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby Dave Cahill » January 3rd, 2020, 10:51 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Yeah but regardless of what you think of the players it's obvious that the coaches are making big errors. A simple solution to one of things I mentioned above, switch Arnold and Goggin when it's clear that Goggin is in deep trouble.


No, thats a fair point - though I'd have switched them off the pitch from kick off! Whats happened to Sean French? Is he injured?
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby desperado » January 3rd, 2020, 11:00 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's an unknown there because of the form of some of their best players like Murray and Earls.

But the tactics/lack of ability to give a platform for Nick to kick last week, the disaster with Goggin on the wing tonight where he clearly isn't comfortable, continuously picking the penalty machine Cloete, not fixing the lateral play, not taking the penalty against Saracens, picking JJ last week when he's been struggling with a hamstring injury and then reinjured himself, and making a big deal of Mathewson being a loss to the squad and leaving a gap are all very obvious mistakes by the coaches IMO.


I dunno, there's only so much silk purse you can get out of a sows ear. I don't think that even Warren Gatland could get that Munster team looking anything more than bang average.

I actually feel sorry for Conor Murray - stuck behind that pack with a rotating cast of mediocrities outside him? Not easy.


Oh I think he could. Trying to make the silk purse is the problem. Stick to your strengths. From the evidence; I'm not convinced by Rowntree firstly. Larkhams work (or a backs coach work) takes longer esp when it looks like basic skills of passing are not up to snuff. The basics of forward play which is Rowntree's remit, and a previous Munster strength have deserted them. DOC and Fla on about 'want' again as the primary issue - is that where Van G is lacking as head coach i.e. instilling that urgency and feeling of playing as if your lives depended on it.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby ronk » January 3rd, 2020, 11:41 pm

Ulster were able to use pullbacks to get around blitz defences and could switch to drift when they got narrow in defence.

Munster were really bad at it. It only takes a few times to make a difference in wasted chances.
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Re: Ulster 2019-2020

Postby blockhead » January 4th, 2020, 5:03 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's an unknown there because of the form of some of their best players like Murray and Earls.

But the tactics/lack of ability to give a platform for Nick to kick last week, the disaster with Goggin on the wing tonight where he clearly isn't comfortable, continuously picking the penalty machine Cloete, not fixing the lateral play, not taking the penalty against Saracens, picking JJ last week when he's been struggling with a hamstring injury and then reinjured himself, and making a big deal of Mathewson being a loss to the squad and leaving a gap are all very obvious mistakes by the coaches IMO.


But its true, he has been a big loss already. He could really get that team moving.

As for the wailing about how big a loss he would be? That was for the IRFUs ears. Medium term planning, lets get another 10, that'll fix it.
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