Rumours - premiership

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Rumours - premiership

Postby The Doc » October 23rd, 2019, 2:31 pm

Has anyone else heard whisper of an announcement about one of our favourite Premiership clubs due to be made after the World Cup.

Apparently related to breaches of certain regulations
Last edited by The Doc on October 23rd, 2019, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby blockhead » October 23rd, 2019, 2:48 pm

This rumour?
Saracens salary cap ruling delayed until after Rugby World Cup as Premiership clubs don't want to disrupt England's bid for glory

A disciplinary panel has concluded its findings into Saracens' salary cap case
The results of the investigation will reveal if club have breached £7million cap
Eight England players, including captain Owen Farrell, could be affected by it

By Matt Hughes and Laura Lambert For The Daily MailPublished: 22:32, 21 October 2019 | Updated: 00:18, 22 October 2019
Premiership Rugby have deferred announcing the results of the inquiry into Saracens' alleged breach of the salary cap due to fears of derailing England's World Cup bid.

Sportsmail has learned that Sport Resolutions, the independent disciplinary panel charged with assessing whether Saracens' investments with players constitute a breach of the £7million cap, have concluded their investigation but their findings will not be made public until after the tournament.

Premiership Rugby Limited (PRL) informed a meeting of club executives last week that a decision on Saracens will be announced 'within the next four weeks' and Sportsmail has been told that a desire to avoid overshadowing the World Cup is the main reason for delaying an announcement that was originally due in the first week of October.

There are eight Saracens players in the England squad in Japan including captain Owen Farrell, and any sanction given to the club could have a significant impact on their careers.

If Saracens are found guilty they will almost certainly be forced to cut their budget, in addition to potentially being given a points deduction of up to 35 points, which could lead to several players needing to look for new employers.

In addition to Saracens' England contingent, the club also have Wales full-back Liam Williams and South Africa prop Vincent Kock still involved in Japan, with PRL concluding that it would be wrong to distract players ahead of the biggest week of their careers.
The PRL have not been told of Sport Resolutions' findings in order to preserve the integrity of the process and will abide by them in their entirety. The other 11 Premiership clubs are expecting Saracens to be found guilty and given a significant punishment following Sportsmail's revelations last March of investment partnerships and property-sharing arrangements between Saracens owner Nigel Wray and leading players, including Farrell, Maro Itoje and Mako and Billy Vunipola.

While the clubs had originally hoped for a verdict before the domestic season began last weekend, Sportsmail has been told the majority of chairmen understand a judgment being delayed because of the World Cup.

With six Saracens players in England's starting XV against Australia for last weekend's quarter-final, club bosses are acutely aware of the sensitivity of the timing and the potential for a judgment to disrupt England's campaign in particular.

PRL declined to comment yesterday.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby The Doc » October 23rd, 2019, 2:53 pm

blockhead wrote:This rumour?
Saracens salary cap ruling delayed until after Rugby World Cup as Premiership clubs don't want to disrupt England's bid for glory

A disciplinary panel has concluded its findings into Saracens' salary cap case
The results of the investigation will reveal if club have breached £7million cap
Eight England players, including captain Owen Farrell, could be affected by it

By Matt Hughes and Laura Lambert For The Daily MailPublished: 22:32, 21 October 2019 | Updated: 00:18, 22 October 2019
Premiership Rugby have deferred announcing the results of the inquiry into Saracens' alleged breach of the salary cap due to fears of derailing England's World Cup bid.

Sportsmail has learned that Sport Resolutions, the independent disciplinary panel charged with assessing whether Saracens' investments with players constitute a breach of the £7million cap, have concluded their investigation but their findings will not be made public until after the tournament.

Premiership Rugby Limited (PRL) informed a meeting of club executives last week that a decision on Saracens will be announced 'within the next four weeks' and Sportsmail has been told that a desire to avoid overshadowing the World Cup is the main reason for delaying an announcement that was originally due in the first week of October.

There are eight Saracens players in the England squad in Japan including captain Owen Farrell, and any sanction given to the club could have a significant impact on their careers.

If Saracens are found guilty they will almost certainly be forced to cut their budget, in addition to potentially being given a points deduction of up to 35 points, which could lead to several players needing to look for new employers.

In addition to Saracens' England contingent, the club also have Wales full-back Liam Williams and South Africa prop Vincent Kock still involved in Japan, with PRL concluding that it would be wrong to distract players ahead of the biggest week of their careers.
The PRL have not been told of Sport Resolutions' findings in order to preserve the integrity of the process and will abide by them in their entirety. The other 11 Premiership clubs are expecting Saracens to be found guilty and given a significant punishment following Sportsmail's revelations last March of investment partnerships and property-sharing arrangements between Saracens owner Nigel Wray and leading players, including Farrell, Maro Itoje and Mako and Billy Vunipola.

While the clubs had originally hoped for a verdict before the domestic season began last weekend, Sportsmail has been told the majority of chairmen understand a judgment being delayed because of the World Cup.

With six Saracens players in England's starting XV against Australia for last weekend's quarter-final, club bosses are acutely aware of the sensitivity of the timing and the potential for a judgment to disrupt England's campaign in particular.

PRL declined to comment yesterday.


That would be the one - not so secret I see :D
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby johng » October 23rd, 2019, 4:18 pm

This was on the cards a month or 2 ago.

It also happened at the last world cup. Then, the premiership clubs decided to gloss over it and carry on when they had a look at sarries war chest for any possible legal aftermath.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby The Doc » October 23rd, 2019, 4:29 pm

johng wrote:This was on the cards a month or 2 ago.

It also happened at the last world cup. Then, the premiership clubs decided to gloss over it and carry on when they had a look at sarries war chest for any possible legal aftermath.


Yeah but I think they tightened the rules including the enforcement to avoid potential legal challenges in future. I heard some other possible sanctions including not participating in Europe
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby johng » October 23rd, 2019, 4:55 pm

In related news. Rumours of Liam Williams heading to the ospreys during the clear out at sarries when this comes out
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 23rd, 2019, 5:07 pm

Thought it was by Fleetwood Mac?

I'd forgotten all about this but looking forward to the verdict/punishment. I'd imagine that any punishment will end up being reduced anyway but I'm very curious as to how they untangle the player payments going forward. I suppose it depends how much they're past the limit, they might end up being back under it just by letting a couple of players leave early or something.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby johng » October 23rd, 2019, 5:49 pm

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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby neiliog93 » October 23rd, 2019, 5:57 pm

If it were bad enough might they have certain titles rescinded a la Rangers?...(I wouldn't necessarily want that to happen, just a thought). At the very least they should get a massive points deduction, possibly relegation, and be forced to immediately get a few high-earning names off their books. Rank cheating and dishonesty.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby Oldschool » October 23rd, 2019, 9:28 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Thought it was by Fleetwood Mac?

I'd forgotten all about this but looking forward to the verdict/punishment. I'd imagine that any punishment will end up being reduced anyway but I'm very curious as to how they untangle the player payments going forward. I suppose it depends how much they're past the limit, they might end up being back under it just by letting a couple of players leave early or something.

"Albatross" around the neck territory then.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby Oldschool » October 23rd, 2019, 9:45 pm

Are the PRL and other interested parties playing it cute here?
If the report were to be released, before the first round of HCC games, stating that Saracens were in breach of the Salary Cap rules then it could be deemed that Saracens' qualification for the HCC was invalid.
Queue sh!t fest.
It might suit the powers to be to delay the report until after the first round has been played and then they can just void the games involving Saracens.
Would they have a clause even to cover something unforeseen like this.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 24th, 2019, 8:07 pm

The Indo says that Saracens are after Marmion. Whether it's legit or a ploy for a new contract I don't think his agent has his finger on the pulse :lol:

I could see him leaving though, I doubt the IRFU is desperate to keep hold of him and Blade could well be ahead of him for Connacht this season. Good player and hope he stays but you'd imagine that he really could do a lot better financially if he left and his Ireland future doesn't look great. He could end up back in the 23 or never be capped again, very uncertain.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby johng » October 25th, 2019, 8:17 am

Is wiggley dicksworth retiring?

Anyone signing for sarries this season is bound to feel underwhelmed.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby Twist » November 3rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

If they really have done this then part of the punishment should be that the stars on their jerseys are swopped for asterisks


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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby cormac » November 5th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Look out Itchy, he's Irish
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 5th, 2019, 12:16 pm

The fine is great but the points deduction doesn't seem enough to me.

Newcastle finished last with 31 points last season and Leicester were second last with 41. Saracens finished second with 78. So there's a decent chance they avoid relegation and if they manage that then they're fine again, although obviously you'd assume that they'll lose players. They payments were over three seasons so I'd have thought that three seasons worth of punishments would make more sense, and they should really be banned from Europe given that they wrongly took the place of another club for three seasons in a row.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby offshorerules » November 5th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Pretty serious sanctions. Doesn't affect European competitions though.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby fourthirtythree » November 5th, 2019, 12:29 pm

Obviously this has nothing to do with us as there is no cap on the European Cup but can I just wish both parties a very lengthy and expensive litigation? Sanctions don't ever actually happen to billionaires and this will run and run.

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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby blockhead » November 5th, 2019, 12:34 pm

35pt deduction will be appealed and probably reduced. The fine is nothing to Nigel.
It's an internal PRL matter though, nought to do with the Heino as far as Pro14 and T14 teams are concerned. Good chance that they wont be in next seasons Heino.
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Re: Rumours - premiership

Postby OTT » November 5th, 2019, 12:34 pm

It is back to the English model of promotion/relegation not working for professional rugby.

They have the salary cap to stop the weaker clubs over extending themselves and going to the wall and a club like Saracens gets screwed for building a brilliant academy and team a team most clubs would love to have (well other then our boys in Blue!). They have long lost their old tag of mercenaries for me. It does not sit right with me that they are getting kept down because other teams don't have money, the salary cap is way, way to restrictive imo. England would not be the team they are without that Saracens glue/heart/will either.

European wise the competition is better with strong teams in it, we would have our 5th star no doubt if we were able to play against a handicapped Saracens last May but when we next get a chance to play them I don't want any excuses being thrown at us let us rise above the best, sport is not meant to be everyone being equal it is about people/teams being the best they can be and overcoming their limitations and adversity whatever they may be.

Making Saracens bad to give other teams a chance is not sport for me. I get that they broke the rules I just think the rules are absolute bollix.

I am sure most people won't agree with my sentiment, let the stones hail down on me :lol:
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