The Economy (Super - Thread)

[Woody01]

Channel-hopping offers explosive time and space perspective
NEWTON'S OPTIC:

BBC News

We interrupt our report on wheelchair access at job centres to bring you some breaking news. Astronomers at Britain’s Jodrell Bank observatory have detected an asteroid on a collision course with Earth. Initial projections suggest it will strike the Republic of Ireland in approximately 15 minutes.

RTÉ News

We interrupt our report on a cat stuck up a tree in Cabinteely to bring you some breaking news. The BBC is reporting a serious problem with wheelchair access at job centres. More on Six-One, but, meanwhile, back to Cabinteely.

BBC News

We have an update on that developing asteroid story, by which we mean the story is developing, not the asteroid. Astronomers confirm it will strike the Republic of Ireland in 13 minutes, causing widespread devastation. Shock waves are expected across Europe and EU leaders are meeting now in emergency session.

RTÉ News

And I’m sure we’re all delighted to see Tiddles safely back on the ground. In other news, Government sources have reacted angrily to reports in London of an “astronomical problem” threatening Ireland.

The British media has a long history of anti-Irish reporting, as you can see from this 1865 cartoon of Mr Punch dropping a rock on “Poor Paddy”.

BBC News

Further details on that asteroid. Jodrell Bank says it is five miles wide, travelling at 20,000mph and will hit Dublin in 10 minutes.

Scientists warn this is an “existential threat” to the Republic of Ireland, while linguists warn that “existential” should not be used as an adjective for “existence”.

RTÉ News

The Government is denying reports of an existential threat to Ireland or a threat to the existence of Ireland.

RTÉ understands that several alarming statistics circulating in London have come from a British bank, which may well have its own reasons for speculating on Dublin’s future.

BBC News

As the so-called “Paddy’s Rock” passes lunar orbit, EU leaders have urged the Irish Government to recognise the gravity of the situation and seek urgent help.

RTÉ News

Government sources confirm they have spoken to EU leaders about an urgent situation, but only to complain that talk of “gravity” is not helping.

BBC News

With impact now minutes away, survival experts advise people to dig a hole in the softest ground available. Fortunately the Irish are good at digging holes in soft ground, as you can see from this 1865 cartoon of Mr Punch “watching Paddy stick his head in the bog”.

RTÉ News

We interrupt these scurrilous rumours to bring you truly earth-shattering news. A man with a beard is moving from Belfast to Dundalk to look for work. Central Bank sources say this proves the recession is over.

BBC News

Our correspondent in Ireland reports that a shadow has now fallen over the whole country and people are fleeing the affected area, except for one man with a beard who appears to be fleeing in the opposite direction.

RTÉ News

In an exclusive angry phone call to our newsroom, a Government press officer has confirmed that he can see the light at the end of the tunnel. The light has appeared in the sky directly over Dublin, where it is glowing bright red and getting larger and larger by the . . .


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 28858.html

[Armchair]

The only benificary of the IMF coming in is that the ECB will get their money back and as stated ALL the rest of us will suffer!

[Hickiefan]

My point earlier was that even without the bank debt (which is criminal) we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no? Unpalatable to all people but unacceptable to many as it "wasn't their fault"... I'm over this argument TBH. It wasn't 'my fault' either but I had to take a pay but as the company I work for had to readjust its finances. I certainly wasn't happy about this but knew others a lot worse off and I was grateful to still have a job. Solidarity is what's needed and not to be still playing the blame game.* The Budget will be very important in this - if any one group is seen to be taken a hammering over another it's all going to kick off.

Depressing times ahead.

* That said I think we'd all feel a lot better if we saw some of the culprits get what's due to them

[sarah_lennon]

we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no?

Absolutely. We have a huge amount of flab having gorged ourselves during the boom.

We rewarded ourselves with low (income) tax but high costs that most could afford, well with a credit card anyway. The minimum wage was held up as a beacon of the tiger. There was no analysis of services and value for money. Money didn't matter

Election after election was bought with income tax reductions and grandiose statements like " another x000s taken out of the tax system"

Billions spent on state employment agencies during a time of almost complete employment

Consultant after consultant hired to produce report after report

Vanity projects like e-voting. Not even that expensive but by god, it's one hell of a symbol of the waste

My hope is that the Irish people have learned from it all. We're still very young as a nation and are addicted to the punt in the back pocket over all else. If we ever become financially stable again or heaven forbid wealthy hopefully we don't have our head turned by con artists.

If we ever return Fianna Fail to government then I'm on the boat. Whatever about people saying "are the other crowd any better", what FF have done is treasonous

[ronk]

we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no?

Absolutely. We have a huge amount of flab having gorged ourselves during the boom.

We rewarded ourselves with low (income) tax but high costs that most could afford, well with a credit card anyway. The minimum wage was held up as a beacon of the tiger. There was no analysis of services and value for money. Money didn't matter

Election after election was bought with income tax reductions and grandiose statements like " another x000s taken out of the tax system"

Billions spent on state employment agencies during a time of almost complete employment

Consultant after consultant hired to produce report after report

Vanity projects like e-voting. Not even that expensive but by god, it's one hell of a symbol of the waste

My hope is that the Irish people have learned from it all. We're still very young as a nation and are addicted to the punt in the back pocket over all else. If we ever become financially stable again or heaven forbid wealthy hopefully we don't have our head turned by con artists.

If we ever return Fianna Fail to government then I'm on the boat. Whatever about people saying "are the other crowd any better", what FF have done is treasonous

That really says it all. We became immune to moderate wastage of money, like we enjoyed having it just so we wouldn't have consequences for making poor purchasing decisions.

[tate]

we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no?

Absolutely. We have a huge amount of flab having gorged ourselves during the boom.

We rewarded ourselves with low (income) tax but high costs that most could afford, well with a credit card anyway. The minimum wage was held up as a beacon of the tiger. There was no analysis of services and value for money. Money didn't matter

Election after election was bought with income tax reductions and grandiose statements like " another x000s taken out of the tax system"

Billions spent on state employment agencies during a time of almost complete employment

Consultant after consultant hired to produce report after report

Vanity projects like e-voting. Not even that expensive but by god, it's one hell of a symbol of the waste

My hope is that the Irish people have learned from it all. We're still very young as a nation and are addicted to the punt in the back pocket over all else. If we ever become financially stable again or heaven forbid wealthy hopefully we don't have our head turned by con artists.

If we ever return Fianna Fail to government then I'm on the boat. Whatever about people saying "are the other crowd any better", what FF have done is treasonous

best start looking at ticket prices so, if history has taught us anything it's that the voters have amnesia when it comes to FF

[johng]

we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no?

Absolutely. We have a huge amount of flab having gorged ourselves during the boom.

We rewarded ourselves with low (income) tax but high costs that most could afford, well with a credit card anyway. The minimum wage was held up as a beacon of the tiger. There was no analysis of services and value for money. Money didn't matter

Election after election was bought with income tax reductions and grandiose statements like " another x000s taken out of the tax system"

Billions spent on state employment agencies during a time of almost complete employment

Consultant after consultant hired to produce report after report

Vanity projects like e-voting. Not even that expensive but by god, it's one hell of a symbol of the waste

My hope is that the Irish people have learned from it all. We're still very young as a nation and are addicted to the punt in the back pocket over all else. If we ever become financially stable again or heaven forbid wealthy hopefully we don't have our head turned by con artists.

If we ever return Fianna Fail to government then I'm on the boat. Whatever about people saying "are the other crowd any better", what FF have done is treasonous

best start looking at ticket prices so, if history has taught us anything it's that the voters have amnesia when it comes to FF

If you sent all the voters in Ireland a picture of their local FF TD molesting that voter's children, 20% of them would still vote for that candidate in the next election.

[Hickiefan]

Yep - what is it with us as a nation? Always party and not candidate?

[Logorrhea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFHgcFl ... =topvideos

[tate]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFHgcFl ... =topvideos

who is he and why is he shouting? What's a financial terrorist?

Although he is right about some things, particularly the criminal investigation part, i must say i have taken an instant dislike to him

[Darce]

I literally couldn't give a flying f%~k about the economy anymore. Its just a case of overload at this stage. Sick of hearing about it...

[combatlogo]

Yep - what is it with us as a nation? Always party and not candidate?

I'd say it's the other way around - people ignore the sins of the party (and by Christ, FF have been a cancer on this country since before their formal founding) and vote for the individual who gets them the medical card/planning permission etc.

[Mackman15]

Yep - what is it with us as a nation? Always party and not candidate?

I'd say it's the other way around - people ignore the sins of the party (and by Christ, FF have been a cancer on this country since before their formal founding) and vote for the individual who gets them the medical card/planning permission etc.

Or alternatively a smattering of both. Take for example the independents such as Lowry- Gangster of the highest order, Bev C.F. - Criminal, J.H.R. Gombeen man 'sent up ti duub linn' to get gouge the feckers for all dat ye can git.

Any country that is prepared to have the likes of the above, 'stroke' Fahy, gombeen jnr, dearest Raphael and Liam and terrorist gun runners in their parliments and council chambers frankly needs to turn the mirror on themselves. We get exactly what we deserve.

It's beyond frustrating.

[Oldschool]

If you sent all the voters in Ireland a picture of their local FF TD molesting that voter's children, 20% of them would still vote for that candidate in the next election.

Which might mean 20% of the population are child molesters - you always have to be careful with stats. (Look at MOD's FFS)

[suisse]

Yep - what is it with us as a nation? Always party and not candidate?

Unfortunately we can't even call ourselves special in that regard. It happens elsewhere. It took the Paraguayans 61 years to vote in a President who wasn't running for the Colorado Party (that was 2008). No sooner was Fernando Lugo voted in that he was almost kicked out for some sexual abuse case or something.

The Liberal Democratic Party of Japan is one of the most successful political parties in the developed world, ruling Japan almost continuously for 54 years until 2009 despite years of corruption and scandal charges. Again, no sooner were they out of government that they were nearly begged back in. Successive Japanese governments trying to kick the Americans off Okinawa. Never happens, leader falls. 7 Prime Ministers in 10 years. Imagine if we were that politically unstable?

[leinster80]

we would still be facing cuts to get ourselves in order, which everyone seems to agree with, no?

Absolutely. We have a huge amount of flab having gorged ourselves during the boom.

We rewarded ourselves with low (income) tax but high costs that most could afford, well with a credit card anyway. The minimum wage was held up as a beacon of the tiger. There was no analysis of services and value for money. Money didn't matter

Election after election was bought with income tax reductions and grandiose statements like " another x000s taken out of the tax system"

Billions spent on state employment agencies during a time of almost complete employment

Consultant after consultant hired to produce report after report

Vanity projects like e-voting. Not even that expensive but by god, it's one hell of a symbol of the waste

My hope is that the Irish people have learned from it all. We're still very young as a nation and are addicted to the punt in the back pocket over all else. If we ever become financially stable again or heaven forbid wealthy hopefully we don't have our head turned by con artists.

If we ever return Fianna Fail to government then I'm on the boat. Whatever about people saying "are the other crowd any better", what FF have done is treasonous

best start looking at ticket prices so, if history has taught us anything it's that the voters have amnesia when it comes to FF

Did anyone check out the frontlne from Monday on rte-player. Out of the four people on the stage who would you vote for? Out of the four fellas on the stage, my first reaction was anyone but the ff guy. But if I'm honest, at the end I had FF, SF, FG, L in that order. Was that the best the other parties can do?

[johng]

But if I'm honest, at the end I had FF, SF, FG, L in that order. Was that the best the other parties can do?

Not sure which which was 1st, no matter which way round it is I can't make sense of the order.

[leinster80]

But if I'm honest, at the end I had FF, SF, FG, L in that order. Was that the best the other parties can do?

Not sure which which was 1st, no matter which way round it is I can't make sense of the order.

1 - FF
2 - SF
3 - FG
4 - L

Surely FG and L can find some better candidates in Donegal.

[darkside lighteside]

FWIW, given all the gloom and doom, I was struck with the relatively positive tone of reviews of O'Toole's and David Lynch's books in the Economist this week, the concluding paragraphs:

Mr Lynch is less apocalyptic than Mr O’Toole. The Irish miracle was not illusory. Female participation in the workforce shot up. The European single market brought big benefits. Productivity rose, especially in manufacturing. The bust has at least produced cheaper housing, as well as (for now) curing the Irish of their property obsession. Wage cuts are now restoring lost competitiveness. And the voters may well decide to cast out Mr Cowen and Fianna Fail at the next election, which may come as early as next year.

Recent bond-market tremors show that Ireland is not out of the woods. It may yet have to borrow from the new euro-zone bail-out fund. Its membership of the euro has helped to protect it during the bust, but could become painful if both the dollar and the pound keep depreciating. Yet its economy is more flexible than many others, its demographic outlook is relatively favourable and its public officials are better than most. Set against Greece, Portugal, Spain and even Italy, its prospects still look bright, whatever Mr O’Toole thinks.

http://www.economist.com/node/17460588

[fourthirtythree]

FWIW, given all the gloom and doom, I was struck with the relatively positive tone of reviews of O'Toole's and David Lynch's books in the Economist this week, the concluding paragraphs:

Mr Lynch is less apocalyptic than Mr O’Toole. The Irish miracle was not illusory. Female participation in the workforce shot up. The European single market brought big benefits. Productivity rose, especially in manufacturing. The bust has at least produced cheaper housing, as well as (for now) curing the Irish of their property obsession. Wage cuts are now restoring lost competitiveness. And the voters may well decide to cast out Mr Cowen and Fianna Fail at the next election, which may come as early as next year.

Recent bond-market tremors show that Ireland is not out of the woods. It may yet have to borrow from the new euro-zone bail-out fund. Its membership of the euro has helped to protect it during the bust, but could become painful if both the dollar and the pound keep depreciating. Yet its economy is more flexible than many others, its demographic outlook is relatively favourable and its public officials are better than most. Set against Greece, Portugal, Spain and even Italy, its prospects still look bright, whatever Mr O’Toole thinks.

I would agree with all of that bold section. It's funny that the increased female participation in the workforce was never a public issue here. It was critical for the '95-'00 growth in the economy, but it wasn't something the government wanted or cared about (see for example their insistence on a command economy style grant and benefit system for having children rather than encouraging employment by a tax deductions on creche fees. Utterly wrong decisions by FF, regressive, anti-business, and deeply stupid).

The overheating property bubble from '01-'06 is a different story of course and the eradication of its effects on Ireland will greatly improve our competitiveness: wages can go down and you won't have to factor in the outrageous cost of every piece of land every business has to work on. The government's attempts to prop up it's contribution to the economy - a property bubble - were always futile and doomed. They are what we have been paying for in the last two years and it may yet cost us everything. Their weddedness to this failed policy is a major part of international lack of confidence in our government. They have to go.


http://www.economist.com/node/17460588