Irish Newspapers v the Internet

[Donny B.]

http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/2012/12/ ... y-the-web/

Quite interesting reading especially for those who post links to the Indo on here...

[Broken Wing]

Presumably they'll be reciprocating by paying out for every link they include on their own webpages.

[Donny B.]

Presumably they'll be reciprocating by paying out for every link they include on their own webpages.

Indeed!

[TheBear]

Well, as a related comment, I've often wondered about whether posting an entire newspaper article here could get the site into trouble. On another website where I was a mod, we would post the first paragraph, then a link to the rest of the article. If the first paragraph wasn't sufficient, then we'd have to summarise the article in our own words.

The story above is obviously crazy, but I do know of websites being pursued for breach of copyright for posting entire articles and/or for failing to provide acknowledgement of the original source.

[Darce]

And will they pay Leinsterfans.com every time their 2nd rate hacks drop by to source material to drum up copy.

[Hacker G]

Well, as a related comment, I've often wondered about whether posting an entire newspaper article here could get the site into trouble. On another website where I was a mod, we would post the first paragraph, then a link to the rest of the article. If the first paragraph wasn't sufficient, then we'd have to summarise the article in our own words.

The story above is obviously crazy, but I do know of websites being pursued for breach of copyright for posting entire articles and/or for failing to provide acknowledgement of the original source.

I can see why they would chase for compensation where articles are posted though, as the content (which would probably be legitimately copyrighted) is being posted without the newspaper getting the benefit of the hits/traffic on their own site (which is usually the basis for the level of advertising revenue generated), but where links are posted and actually lead directly to increased levels of traffic on the newspaper's own site i can't see why they would want to restrict that at all. If anything, they should be clamping down on other sites allowing articles to be posted and demanding that links are used instead.

Seems too bizarre to be true, but you never know, these people also continue to employ Brendan O'Connor, John Waters, Kevin Myers, Losser Kelly ... so could well be true

[limecat]

http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/2012/12/ ... y-the-web/

Quite interesting reading especially for those who post links to the Indo on here...

The NNI response is in: http://www.nni.ie/v2/broad/portal.php?c ... &year=2013

and what Forbes thinks of it

[Broken Wing]

If they have their way you could be in trouble for posting that link limecat:

In the Consultation Paper issued by the Copyright Review Committee appointed by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to review existing copyright legislation, the Committee expressly requested that submissions would be made by any interested parties on the issue and as to whether our existing copyright law should be changed so as to specifically include a positive statement to the effect that linking in itself, without more, does not constitute an infringement of copyright legislation.

NNI made a submission to the effect that our view of existing legislation is that the display and transmission of links does constitute an infringement of copyright and our existing copyright law should not be amended in the manner discussed in the Consultation Paper.

I can't wait to see how they determine the possible copyright infringement of search engine results.

[ronk]

This has cropped up before elsewhere, and it never gets very far.

It's interesting how newspapers that have benefits so lucratively from freedom of the press are so quick to dismantle it. All they've really done is underscore the importance of changes in the law to restrict their ability to abuse it. The general public should be aware of how they need to play a role in defending the internet rather than trusting commercial entities.

Technologically, it's not that hard to restrict static linking. Most online newspapers already do (or have done) some form of restrictions.

[Broken Wing]

The Irish Times blogs are jammed full of links as are stories on the Indo and Herald sites. Are they currently paying people? If they say publishing a simple link is an infringement of copyright then, presumably, they will no longer be able to mention any websites e.g. broadsheet.ie or boards.ie, as just by doing so they will be publishing the link and infringing copyright.

[waterboy]

Article from thejournal.ie on it

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/newspap ... 3-Jan2013/

Maybe the newpapers in this country should focus more on upping the quality of their content, and people will be more inclined to buy them/visit their sites rather than going all middle ages on it. I don't read any Irish newpapers any more as they are all as bad as each other.

[fourthirtythree]

The Irish Times (for example) actually does try to avoid linking to sources where people could check the information out for themselves and possibly draw other conclusions. They are trying to work on reputation as a gatekeeper. In other words they are ideologically totally at variance with the web.

That said, this is not just the crazy talk of a dying industry circling the drain but rather a small example of the concerted efforts from IP based industries to constrain the web for its purposes. If you are a believer in technological determinism you will no doubt believe that the genie can't go back into the bottle. I'm not so sanguine and I think that we need to exercise vigilance at every step. Just because newspapers will actually go away if we ignore them (and increasingly we do just that) doesn't mean that they can't cause significant harm before they do.

EDIT
Hilarious article my wife pointed out to me in the IT yesterday decrying the standards of web new sources. This would be the IT that has a staff of professional click-whore trolls as its Kommentariat, unanswerable for their constant and repeated failure to be right. Whose online edition is solely driven by clicks and trying to hoover up links yet hasn't actually bothered to sub-edit itself for the web (references to pictures that aren't there etc.), that uses wikipedia as a source etc.

Goodbye newspaper industry. You haven't been worth worrying over in a long time.

[meinster]

I've often wondered about whether posting an entire newspaper article here could get the site into trouble.

Most definitely actionable, if anyone was arsed enough. Unlikely to happen to a site of this focus & size, though; perhaps a sternly worded letter. On larger sites (boards.ie, for e.g.) it becomes a lot more tempting.

The "one paragrah, and you'll be grand" thing comes from the fair use clauses in US copyright laws. Most don't apply here (or most places in EU). I doubt any of the larger sources are willing to chance that in court, though, especially when said content was published on a free-to-view basis in the first place.

Posting an entire article, mostly without any attribution at all, from the Times is a no-no though, on copyright grounds, on breach-of-contract (T&C) grounds, and on theft grounds (when that article goes subscription-only).

As for the hyperlinking story .. well that's just downright entertaining. Nearly as entertaining as BT's hyperlink patent.

[sheepshagger]

How the hell are they going to police this (and bill sites around the world who have links)?

While we are at it - will people who link stories on facebook and Twitter have to pay and how will that be billed?

An ill thought out idea that won'y go anywhere, the only people what will make any money are the lawyers.

[sid]

They're actually so dumb it's incredible.

[fourthirtythree]

They're not actually intending to police it but to reserve the right to do so. This means that they'll get in touch with some sites and threaten them with legal action. Companies they calculate won't risk or can't afford the legal bills in general. It's like the patent trolls: they go for SMEs.

IP law is quite seriously broken. People in the US are being charged for scanning and emailing... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013 ... -scanners/

[tackle-bag]

what Forbes thinks of it

It's rare that you'll find me agreeing with the Evening Herald, but that article (the opening in particular) is completely racist. The fact that the newspapers who are banging a drum about this issue at the moment happen to be Irish has absolutely nothing to do with the merits or otherwise of the position being advanced. I think their argument is fatally flawed, but that doesn't entitle this Worstall creep to say "sure they're all imbeciles so what do you expect". I'm amazed that an enormous organisation like Forbes would print such a poorly written, incendiary piece of trash.