On the road again...

[Peg Leg]

Bus Eireann on strike,
The unions have gone against a labour court recommendation on this one, the avg. wage for a driver is €45k????
This is a company making a (albeit very late) bid for continued survival but the unions can not see beyond their own noses. The union keeps harping on about wanting the management to take cuts equivalent to the driving staff (the much shouted figure of a €3k loss to drivers only actually applies to drivers earning €56k per annum, the actual amount for the avg. driver is €750.00), but have yet to formally produce a methodology of achieving the desired cuts across the board.
BE have consistently stated their being available to discuss alternatives over the course of this debacle and nothing..... The union is doing the drivers no favours.

How can they really expect any support?

[Dave Cahill]

BE have consistently stated their being available to discuss alternatives over the course of this debacle and nothing.....

Bus Eireann and the NBRU agreed to meet with the LRC to discuss implementing the LC recommendations, BE then withdrew the day the meetings were scheduled for and decided to implement the recommendations off their own bat. Bus Eireann may well be available to discuss alternatives, but only if it involves not meeting anyone, not discussing anything, or looking at any alternatives.

[Peg Leg]

BE have consistently stated their being available to discuss alternatives over the course of this debacle and nothing.....

Bus Eireann and the NBRU agreed to meet with the LRC to discuss implementing the LC recommendations, BE then withdrew the day the meetings were scheduled for and decided to implement the recommendations off their own bat. Bus Eireann may well be available to discuss alternatives, but only if it involves not meeting anyone, not discussing anything, or looking at any alternatives.

How could they discuss their implementation of the labour courts recommendations, if the union dismissed them out of hand?

[Dave Cahill]

BE have consistently stated their being available to discuss alternatives over the course of this debacle and nothing.....

Bus Eireann and the NBRU agreed to meet with the LRC to discuss implementing the LC recommendations, BE then withdrew the day the meetings were scheduled for and decided to implement the recommendations off their own bat. Bus Eireann may well be available to discuss alternatives, but only if it involves not meeting anyone, not discussing anything, or looking at any alternatives.

How could they discuss their implementation of the labour courts recommendations, if the union dismissed them out of hand?

How did they dismiss them out of hand? Surely entering an arbitration process is the exact opposite of dismissing something out of hand?

[Peg Leg]

How could they discuss their implementation of the labour courts recommendations, if the union dismissed them out of hand?

How did they dismiss them out of hand? Surely entering an arbitration process is the exact opposite of dismissing something out of hand?

With the caveat that I am basing all this on newsfeeds from RTE & Newstalk over the course of the weekend-

BE claimed that the unions would not engage in discussions RE: the LC recommendations because the were not satisfied with the verdict outcome!

Maybe the media is quite biased on this (I know tend to be), but my read of the situation is that, if the Union has something genuine to gripe about- they are not getting it out there.

EDIT: Verdict

[Sionnach]

€45k for a bus driver? Madness. A London bus driver earns around €27k, in what is a more expensive city.

[Peg Leg]

€45k for a bus driver? Madness. A London bus driver earns around €27k, in what is a more expensive city.

Note: that's not basic, it includes OT and various allowances incl. availability to work Sat/Sun

[meinster]

How did they dismiss them out of hand?

By refusing, rather matter of factly, to come up with alternatives. They've done that very publicly, and consistently, since the LC decision. No point in bringing the process to the LRC (or any form of arbitration) with that mindset. The NRBU have put a spin on that stubborn stance as something along the lines of it's not their job to come up with a BE rescue plan. However, they''ve been told with the second highest authority in the country (with legal action now their only recourse) what needs to be done, they [NRBU] don't agree, and now refuse to offer any resolution to that. Not sure how sympathetic one can be to the union in this case.

[meinster]

€45k for a bus driver?

Note: that's not basic, it includes OT and various allowances incl. availability to work Sat/Sun

Yup, that's spin in the other way. However the base salary is still a lot higher than other EU countries (though I haven't seen a list of all EU averages, it's hard to say if BE is average or not).

[Dave Cahill]

How did they dismiss them out of hand?

By refusing, rather matter of factly, to come up with alternatives. They've done that very publicly, and consistently, since the LC decision. No point in bringing the process to the LRC (or any form of arbitration) with that mindset. The NRBU have put a spin on that stubborn stance as something along the lines of it's not their job to come up with a BE rescue plan. However, they''ve been told with the second highest authority in the country (with legal action now their only recourse) what needs to be done, they [NRBU] don't agree, and now refuse to offer any resolution to that. Not sure how sympathetic one can be to the union in this case.

They had one meeting. Then the Company walked. I don't see how anyone can say, either way, who had what mindset after one meeting. This is, after all, a company with a good history of labour relations (certainly compared to the rest of the CIE group) despite, or perhaps because of, repeated political interference in business matters that have caused the company to lose money and routes.

[Peg Leg]

I don't see how anyone can say, either way, who had what mindset after one meeting.

Are you serious?
You seem fairly capable of wording an opinion in 1 paragraph or less, why do you feel that paid professionals/negotiators can not do likewise over the course of 1 meeting?

[meinster]

Agreed on the better than CIE-average (but still not great) record.

However, this process has been ongoing for a lot longer than 1 meeting. The company only "walked" after it became clear that the LRC wouldn't have any role to play (at this point in time, at least) when the NRBU are refusing to discuss any alternatives to the labour court recommendations. If the labour court says X, and you don't agree, then you should have a pretty convincing argument for Y. All NRBU seem to have done is say "we don't like X, and it's not our job to come up with Y". That's not going to lead to any resolution that favours them, and is a disservice to its members.

Now, to avoid a rant of the role of trade unions (political parties) these days!

[Peg Leg]

Now, to avoid a rant of the role of trade unions (political parties) these days!

Unlikely, but with a bit of luck!

[Sionnach]

€45k for a bus driver? Madness. A London bus driver earns around €27k, in what is a more expensive city.

Note: that's not basic, it includes OT and various allowances incl. availability to work Sat/Sun

With overtime, and weekend working (a given, in London bus driver jobs) a bus driver can earn a shade under €31k a year. They do get a free travel card which is a benefit, I suppose.

Source: http://www.arrivalondon.com/driver_criteria

[Hornet]

€45k for a bus driver? Madness. A London bus driver earns around €27k, in what is a more expensive city.

Note: that's not basic, it includes OT and various allowances incl. availability to work Sat/Sun

With overtime, and weekend working (a given, in London bus driver jobs) a bus driver can earn a shade under €31k a year. They do get a free travel card which is a benefit, I suppose.

Source: http://www.arrivalondon.com/driver_criteria

Arriva are only one of nine companies that are contracted to London Bus to provide services.
UK based Bus Companies are:
Arriva London
First London
Go-Ahead London (London Central, London General, Blue Triangle, Docklands Buses)
Stagecoach London
companies owned by foreign-based groups:
ComfortDelGro (Metroline)
Transdev London Sovereign
Abellio London
RATP (London United)
Quality Line

(A First Group subsiduary operate Aircoach in Dublin, with French Company Veolia running LUAS).

The whole Public Transport system in this country needs a fundamental, structural change, to bring best practices in from the rest of Europe.
(They could start by looking at the Belgium, Dutch and Danish Models). This could well be the best time to do it.

[Peg Leg]

Saw on the news this evening that they stopped a PPP GoBe driver at Cork this morning and would not let him leave the terminal unless he emptied his passenger load!
The INMO are currently trying to negotiate a further round of cuts to their frontline staff, this i understand. Overpaid bus drivers acting up over this (a cut of €750.00 on an avg. accumulated wage of €45,000.00), i do not.

[Hornet]

Saw on the news this evening that they stopped a PPP GoBe driver at Cork this morning and would not let him leave the terminal unless he emptied his passenger load!
The INMO are currently trying to negotiate a further round of cuts to their frontline staff, this i understand. Overpaid bus drivers acting up over this (a cut of €750.00 on an avg. accumulated wage of €45,000.00), i do not.

Is this not illegal secondary action. Perhaps a legal challenge to this should be considered, (both from the Company and Passengers affected).

[meinster]

The INMO are currently trying to negotiate a further round of cuts to their frontline staff, this i understand. Overpaid bus drivers acting up over this (a cut of €750.00 on an avg. accumulated wage of €45,000.00), i do not.

A sentiment I'd suggest that most of us would relate to. Even the less union-tolerant amongst us!

Is this not illegal secondary action.

Yes, totally. As with all things industrial action related, heat of the moment can blur judgement. The action didn't last long; I presume that once it was explained that GoBE/GoBus/Kavanaghs have nothing to do with BE except for code-share/station-share arrangement (which GoBus were avoiding for the day to avoid any such action!), common sense was restored. It was only a short delay. However GoBE had cancelled other services (some of which ran later, I think) because of it. Unlikely to be any legal action over it (GoBus benefit greatly from the GoBE arrangement).

Anyway, they're back in talks. Let's hope NRBU have something to bring to the table this time, and let's hope BE will at least hear them out.