The Homophobia referendum

[Oldschool]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course. I'm also a little bit too old to be reprogrammed (well that's my excuse anyway).
But on a more practical and cynical note - Anyone who has an unmarried brother or sister with no offspring might be voting away their current inheritance rights.
Whimsical you might think but you know what the TV AD says - "Where there's a will there's a way". And the Irish are nothing if not very protective of their property rights.
However I am, like most people, not without compassion and I would suggest to anyone trying to persuade the voter (ie me and my ilk) to be pro the referendum that it is to our compassion they should appeal. Implying that we are homophobic will get you no where and is likely to rankle with anyone like me who has had enough of ill thought out political correctness.
As an afterthought I don't appreciate my TV license money having to be used to settle court cases relating to the above issues. Not the way to win voters over I would suggest.

[Broken Wing]

The world is changing OS. You have a choice as to which side of history you want to be on. The side that said that it was OK to treat some members of society differently or the side that said we're all equal.

[Xanthippe]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course. I'm also a little bit too old to be reprogrammed (well that's my excuse anyway).
But on a more practical and cynical note - Anyone who has an unmarried brother or sister with no offspring might be voting away their current inheritance rights.
Whimsical you might think but you know what the TV AD says - "Where there's a will there's a way". And the Irish are nothing if not very protective of their property rights.
However I am, like most people, not without compassion and I would suggest to anyone trying to persuade the voter (ie me and my ilk) to be pro the referendum that it is to our compassion they should appeal. Implying that we are homophobic will get you no where and is likely to rankle with anyone like me who has had enough of ill thought out political correctness.
As an afterthought I don't appreciate my TV license money having to be used to settle court cases relating to the above issues. Not the way to win voters over I would suggest.

If it wasn't only just after 4pm I would suggest that you sir are an idiot when drunk. However, as it is only 4pm and you are unlikely to have consumed copious amount of alcohol, I'm not sure what exactly you are!!



Edited to ensure there was no mistake as to who I was directing my comment to.

[honeyec]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.

You see no reason to change the status quo because as a heterosexual it doesn't have any effect on you.

However, the good news is that changing the status quo will have absolutely no effect on you whatsoever either. Granting equal marriage rights to gay couples will have precisely zero effect on your life as it stands.

Given those circumstances, it genuinely puzzles me how anyone who isn't a religious zealot can have any objection to it.

Also, accusing those of us who think the LGBT community should have equal rights of "ill thought out political correctness" also tends to rankle, just fyi.

[Oldschool]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course. I'm also a little bit too old to be reprogrammed (well that's my excuse anyway).
But on a more practical and cynical note - Anyone who has an unmarried brother or sister with no offspring might be voting away their current inheritance rights.
Whimsical you might think but you know what the TV AD says - "Where there's a will there's a way". And the Irish are nothing if not very protective of their property rights.
However I am, like most people, not without compassion and I would suggest to anyone trying to persuade the voter (ie me and my ilk) to be pro the referendum that it is to our compassion they should appeal. Implying that we are homophobic will get you no where and is likely to rankle with anyone like me who has had enough of ill thought out political correctness.
As an afterthought I don't appreciate my TV license money having to be used to settle court cases relating to the above issues. Not the way to win voters over I would suggest.

If it wasn't only just after 4pm I would suggest that you sir are an idiot when drunk. However, as it is only 4pm and you are unlikely to have consumed copious amount of alcohol, I'm not sure what exactly you are!!



Edited to ensure there was no mistake as to who I was directing my comment to.

Well you could try a coherent argument against even some of the issues I raise in the post. People will vote for their own reasons not everyone else's.
The divorce referendum being a clear case in point where a lot of women were frightened into voting against divorce because they felt they would lose out.
They may have been correct in that view (I don't think so BTW) but inheritance issues were a big part of it. I voted for it out of compassion for people whom I knew needed/wanted it. It will be the same for this issue but telling me I'm an idiot because I express an opinion different to yours or different to the perceived equality agenda or what ever, is unlikely to influence my decision in a positive way. The pro campaign have to make the running on this issue because they are the ones that want change and that's just the way life is. Implying that all dinosaurs are homophobic is just not good enough and I make no apology for taking offense. It's lazy and a cheap shot and if they can't rise above it, why should I? The moral imperative applies to them just as much as the rest of us.
There is not such thing as equality BTW there are just winners and losers. You get an equal amount of both when you get equality
I kind of like Broken Wings approach - I have a choice so think about it and make a decision.

[Oldschool]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.

You see no reason to change the status quo because as a heterosexual it doesn't have any effect on you.

However, the good news is that changing the status quo will have absolutely no effect on you whatsoever either. Granting equal marriage rights to gay couples will have precisely zero effect on your life as it stands.

Given those circumstances, it genuinely puzzles me how anyone who isn't a religious zealot can have any objection to it.

Also, accusing those of us who think the LGBT community should have equal rights of "ill thought out political correctness" also tends to rankle, just fyi.

"personal" reason was implied. I pointed out that there are other issues such as the inheritance issue. Believe me or not but I'd be fairly sure this will be an issue.
I do not agree with you that granting equal rights of marriage to gay couples will not affect me. Even something as simple as social welfare rights or more complex issues such as adoption rights will change.
I don't presume that this is as simple an issue as you imply, I know it's not and I certainly won't be voting blindly.

[sid]

There is no reason why this country's laws should continue to discriminate against homosexuals. I'd challenge you to explain why discriminating based on sexual orientation is any different to discriminating based on skin colour. The latter is completely unacceptable in today's society and the former should be too.

The reason to change the status quo is because it is unjust.

Now, I don't know the details of the other issues you bring up, so I won't comment on them. I'm not aware of anything that would convince me to pass up the chance to make our society more equal though.

[Dave Cahill]

Just to make this thread a bit shorter, for those who are going to post if you start a point of view, an opinion, an argument or whatever with 'I'm not a homophobe, but..."

Yeah, you're a homophobe.

[blockhead]

Just to make this thread a bit shorter, for those who are going to post if you start a point of view, an opinion, an argument or whatever with 'I'm not a homophobe, but..."

Yeah, you're a homophobe.

Everyone, in one way or another, is a bigot. For everyone,there is someone out there that they are prejudiced towards. Be it religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, age, nationality, colour etc. All prejudices are equal, otherwise you're just discriminating on your discriminations. So no-one really has the moral high ground.
If I vote, I'll vote for change because I haven't heard any plausible argument against it, "protecting the sanctity of marriage", I'm not sure what that even means.

[sid]

Everyone, in one way or another, is a bigot. For everyone,there is someone out there that they are prejudiced towards. Be it religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, age, nationality, colour etc. All prejudices are equal, otherwise you're just discriminating on your discriminations. So no-one really has the moral high ground.

Your conclusion couldn't be more wrong. I believe in equality for everyone; whether I like them or not is irrelevant.

[blockhead]

Everyone, in one way or another, is a bigot. For everyone,there is someone out there that they are prejudiced towards. Be it religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, age, nationality, colour etc. All prejudices are equal, otherwise you're just discriminating on your discriminations. So no-one really has the moral high ground.

Your conclusion couldn't be more wrong. I believe in equality for everyone; whether I like them or not is irrelevant.

Why would you not like them Sid? And is it an individual or a group?

[TheBear]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course. I'm also a little bit too old to be reprogrammed (well that's my excuse anyway).
But on a more practical and cynical note - Anyone who has an unmarried brother or sister with no offspring might be voting away their current inheritance rights.
Whimsical you might think but you know what the TV AD says - "Where there's a will there's a way". And the Irish are nothing if not very protective of their property rights.
However I am, like most people, not without compassion and I would suggest to anyone trying to persuade the voter (ie me and my ilk) to be pro the referendum that it is to our compassion they should appeal. Implying that we are homophobic will get you no where and is likely to rankle with anyone like me who has had enough of ill thought out political correctness.
As an afterthought I don't appreciate my TV license money having to be used to settle court cases relating to the above issues. Not the way to win voters over I would suggest.

If it wasn't only just after 4pm I would suggest that you sir are an idiot when drunk. However, as it is only 4pm and you are unlikely to have consumed copious amount of alcohol, I'm not sure what exactly you are!!



Edited to ensure there was no mistake as to who I was directing my comment to.

Well you could try a coherent argument against even some of the issues I raise in the post. People will vote for their own reasons not everyone else's.
The divorce referendum being a clear case in point where a lot of women were frightened into voting against divorce because they felt they would lose out.
They may have been correct in that view (I don't think so BTW) but inheritance issues were a big part of it. I voted for it out of compassion for people whom I knew needed/wanted it. It will be the same for this issue but telling me I'm an idiot because I express an opinion different to yours or different to the perceived equality agenda or what ever, is unlikely to influence my decision in a positive way. The pro campaign have to make the running on this issue because they are the ones that want change and that's just the way life is. Implying that all dinosaurs are homophobic is just not good enough and I make no apology for taking offense. It's lazy and a cheap shot and if they can't rise above it, why should I? The moral imperative applies to them just as much as the rest of us.
There is not such thing as equality BTW there are just winners and losers. You get an equal amount of both when you get equality
I kind of like Broken Wings approach - I have a choice so think about it and make a decision.

But you didn't raise any issues that actually relate to same sex marriage in your OP. You mentioned something about sibling-to-sibling inheritances, but I don't think they're automatic if a person dies in testate, so are not really relevant to this discussion.

Apart from that, what the others said.

[Dave Cahill]

But you didn't raise any issues that actually relate to same sex marriage in your OP. You mentioned something about sibling-to-sibling inheritances, but I don't think they're automatic if a person dies in testate, so are not really relevant to this discussion.

Apart from that, what the others said.

If you've lived through as many divorce referendums as I have you'll recognise the tactic - a bit of fear mongering about farms getting broken up and the jobs oxo.

[ronk]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course.

[TheBear]

But you didn't raise any issues that actually relate to same sex marriage in your OP. You mentioned something about sibling-to-sibling inheritances, but I don't think they're automatic if a person dies in testate, so are not really relevant to this discussion.

Apart from that, what the others said.

If you've lived through as many divorce referendums as I have you'll recognise the tactic - a bit of fear mongering about farms getting broken up and the jobs oxo.

I only remember one divorce referendum, but I always thought that scare-mongering was an essential ingredient of all referndums here. Conscription into an EU army, anyone?

[RoboProp]

Let gays marry, they've every right to be as miserable as the rest of us. Seriously though, I'm a bit of a an auld softie and when people regardless of sexual orientation can enjoy the same rights as the rest of us then Robo will be a happy chap. Like the song goes what the world needs now is love sweet love, and who are any of us to stand in the way of that. I know it's a rather simplistic view but that's how I roll

[neilinboston]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course. I'm also a little bit too old to be reprogrammed (well that's my excuse anyway).
But on a more practical and cynical note - Anyone who has an unmarried brother or sister with no offspring might be voting away their current inheritance rights.
Whimsical you might think but you know what the TV AD says - "Where there's a will there's a way". And the Irish are nothing if not very protective of their property rights.
However I am, like most people, not without compassion and I would suggest to anyone trying to persuade the voter (ie me and my ilk) to be pro the referendum that it is to our compassion they should appeal. Implying that we are homophobic will get you no where and is likely to rankle with anyone like me who has had enough of ill thought out political correctness.
As an afterthought I don't appreciate my TV license money having to be used to settle court cases relating to the above issues. Not the way to win voters over I would suggest.

so...we should deny people equal rights because of inheritance rights? it's ok for a sibling to lose inheritance if their sibling is in a hetero relationship but it's a concern if the relationship is homo? how does that work for you? what about the inheritance rights of the person a sibling chose to spend their life with?
i know nothing about your personal life so will assume you're in a happy committed loving relationship with your mirror... if you loved a crystal ball instead should that somehow class your love as lesser because you don't love a mirror?
there is no implication that you're homophobic, if you're voting against equal rights for homosexuals you're at least displaying homophobic behaviors...also known as being a homophobe. is it racist to deny rights to a black person (assuming you're not black)? is it sexist to deny rights to a woman? if, you believe denying rights to a woman is sexist, why would denying rights to a homosexual not be homophobic?
as for the adoption piece , when giving a child up for adoption you can request certain criteria. therefore if you object, on say religious grounds (as is your right), you could request your child be adopted by a hetero couple.
i also am less than impressed that TV license money was used as a settlement since that settlement effectively said that rte does not believe that attempting to deny a segment of society a basic right is prejudice.
however, the homophobic debate (which is effectively an argument over the English language) does take away from the moral core of the debate. the core of the debate is that my friends should have the same rights as me, their spouses should have the same rights as mine. if you have no gay friends then imagine if 1 in 10 (i made up a number before somebody pulls me up on it) hetero marriages were not allowed to happen, if that couple had no inheritance rights, if society said there love wasn't valid, that their love was vile, would that make sense?
nobody is asking you to be turned on at the idea of gay sex or even think about the mechanics of it but, simply, to allow two people express their love in the socially normal manner.

[neilinboston]

oh, and the catholic circus beliefs are not a valid argument against.that organization abdicated it's right to make moral judgments when it covered up pedophilia cases.

[blockhead]

I remember the divorce referendum. Won by a tiny margin, tiny iirc. It lashed rain in the west all day long, while Dublin was a calm sunny day. In the end I think it was that that won it.

[fourthirtythree]

As a heterosexual Alpha (my own self styling TBH) male I see no reason to change the status quo.
I am open to conversion of course.

Fnaar fnaar! If you're curious Olschool, just go for it! Never too late to find love. I believe there are even "apps" one can download with geolocated data to help one... date.