Neil Francis

[Dave Cahill]

The whole GSOC is a total load of shyte and why we are still hearing about it is down to two things egos and politicians.

The body we put in charge of 'watching the watchmen' has been illegally surveilled using 'state level' equipment. If the Gardai or G2 are responsible it is the most significant danger to the state since The Emergency. Thats not a load of shyte, thats a fundamental attack on the state and democracy in this country.

[sid]

Im not annoyed that it is being discussed. Im annoyed that it is being forced into every fauct of my day. There is a time and place for rational discussion by informed people. It's everywhere now. Its even gotten to the sports section thanks to Neil Francis.

There are far more pressing issues in this counrty then the right for two people to be married. We have people dying on trollies in hospitals, the weakest of all people those with learning difficulties are being denyed medical cards and education because of cuts. These LIFE AND DEATH things should be the main focus of our media but they instead feed on something that they know is going to get peoples hackles up.

Jesus i feel the world has gone mad sometimes.

Of course there are other issues in the country, but that's not a reason to trivialize discrimination. Media coverage isn't going to do much for our healthcare system when everyone knows that there are major problems. It may, however, help highlight the fact that a group of people is denied the same rights as everyone else when several other groups would be quite happy to brush it aside.

[simonokeeffe]

Franno and Nigel Owens on Last word in a minute to discuss it

the increasingly petulant broadsheet.ie had a go at the national squad for not weighing in on this when Jamie Heaslip retweeted the comments by Owens and Cusack

[fourthirtythree]

The thing about being discriminated against is that it makes strange bedfellows. James Connolly and Patrick Pearse to name but 2.

Whoah, hang on there! Sure PP was gay as a treefull of monkeys on laughing gas but I thought James Connolly was heterosexual?

[paddyor]

This topic probably should be in the "The Homophobia Referendum" thread in General Chat as it's not really a Leinster issue.
I would have to add tho' that there is a lot of what I would describe as bully type posting. Just because somebody doesn't agree with something don't assume that you are right and they are wrong or that they are making valid points or even trying to give an honest and open opinion on something.
In most cases none of us know other posters well enough to really judge them morally.
I'd have to say that appalled as some of you seem to have been at my opening post (and I suggest that some of you who have already read it, read it again and reappraise some of the assumptions you might have made) I found the reaction equally appalling and am glad that if there ever were Kangaroo courts in Ireland they don't exist now.
Stop assuming that so and so is a racist or homophobic and actually discuss the issues that may or may not be relevant (As one poster rightly pointed out there will be scare mongering etc). A central question is why would anyone vote no and if your immediate response to that question is that they are so an so whatever kind of bigots then it's the wrong answer.
What is homophobia, how do you recognise it in somebody, what makes them homophobic, are there degrees of homophobia (I suspect there are as there is in all types of prejudice) and furthermore does it necessarily mean they will vote against gay marriage.
We all have prejudices surely the issue is how we overcome or override them rather than that we already have them.
How many of you have woken up some morning and suddenly decided out of the blue. I'm going to be a racist today unless some majorly traumatic event had influenced you.
How do you suddenly become un-prejudiced about something. Come up with answer to that answer and you will end most of the major international disputes around the globe.
Bottom line approach the subject with an open mind and accept that the comments made by other posters are made genuinely.

Your OP was wishy washy at best. People dismissed you for being ignorant which I think was fair enough. You pointed out that their was inheritance issues with gay marriage() without realizing that the same issues apply to straight marriage. Do you really think it's okay to sabotage a siblings life and happiness to protect ones inheritance if they're gay?

I'd agree that are different levels of prejudice and discrimination. Some of it is comes from cultural xenophobia that is at times harmless(Japaneses people scared of a curly red haired Irish woman with freckles) but it can be exploited to become something more sinister and dangerous. Mostly I think the worst of it has to to do with greed and keeping other parties down to advance your self. Gay people still get bullied in the work place and are discouraged from pursuing their greivances(my little brother) so don't be surprised if people react a bit defensively to people they feel are threatening/discriminating against friends and family. Especially when the reasons seem to be farcical(John Waters I'm looking at you), financial(Catholic church - already loosing money in the schools) and stupid(Neil Francis).

I appreciate that you weren't in anyway attempting a broadside at gay people in general and that you were genuine, but keeping an open mind you might realise that the responses were genuine too. It's an emotive issue for a lot of people. It's terrible to think that so many people can spend so much of their lives in fear of who they are. And then when they do finally find some self belief and have some pride, they still find themselves the subject of little/big passive aggressive snubs. The gist of which is - "Yeah you're okay but not really!". Francis's comment is just another in a long line of these. Gay marriage is the big issue but really it's more a whole load of little things with the marriage referendum being the conductor for peoples dissatisfaction for the status quo.

[paddyor]

The body we put in charge of 'watching the watchmen' has been illegally surveilled using 'state level' equipment. If the Gardai or G2 are responsible it is the most significant danger to the state since The Emergency. Thats not a load of shyte, thats a fundamental attack on the state and democracy in this country.

+1
It looks they're going to brush it under the carpet as well which is a disgrace!

[fourthirtythree]

The whole GSOC is a total load of shyte and why we are still hearing about it is down to two things egos and politicians.

The body we put in charge of 'watching the watchmen' has been illegally surveilled using 'state level' equipment. If the Gardai or G2 are responsible it is the most significant danger to the state since The Emergency. Thats not a load of shyte, thats a fundamental attack on the state and democracy in this country.

While we're at it having the home security minister who is in charge of the civilian police also being in charge of the army would be considered despotism in most countries. I'm pretty sure it would be unthinkable even in places like China. That it has passed by without a murmur here (just like arming the police force after nearly a century of proudly being unarmed, and I've met local liaison officers giving speeches to groups of foreign nationals arriving in Ireland and I can tell you they were genuinely, really proud of this, seems to have gone under the radar because they did it on Christmas holidays like the Anglo Irish bank deal....) really seems par for the course given that nobody seems to mind the GSOC bugging, the refusal of the commissioner to accept that his force has any corruption or collusion cases to answer and the nature of the ministers bringing an independent body to heel. Democracy doesn't mean an awful lot around now.

[Oldschool]

The whole GSOC is a total load of shyte and why we are still hearing about it is down to two things egos and politicians.

The body we put in charge of 'watching the watchmen' has been illegally surveilled using 'state level' equipment. If the Gardai or G2 are responsible it is the most significant danger to the state since The Emergency. Thats not a load of shyte, thats a fundamental attack on the state and democracy in this country.

See I never said that the illegal surveillance was a load of shyte. I explicitly referred to the egos and politicians who are only interested in ar$e covering and fending off political points scoring and so on and that IMHO most certainly is a load of shyte. It's now about points scoring instead of, as you rightly point out, getting to the bottom of the problem and bringing the issue to a conclusion no matter how unsatsifactory that might be.
What the GSOC should have done and started to do TBF was to investigate their suspicions using a third party who had no associations.
Depending on what was found they should then have informed the appropriate authorities.
Now then who would be the appropriate authority? That depends on what they found. Not the Gardai no matter what they found. If the dept of justice were found to be the culprits then not them either or their boss so maybe the Taoiseach and so and so forth. Once they refered it to a higher authority the decison to then involve the Gardai or otherwise can be made. I wonder how this sort of situation is handled in other democracies. Are we once again trying to reinvent the wheel instead of just getting the solution off the shelf.
If they found something and weren't sure what they found well now there's another dilemma because the culprits were very good at covering their tracks and the evidence left behind was inconclusive but not non-existent.

[johng]

The thing about being discriminated against is that it makes strange bedfellows. James Connolly and Patrick Pearse to name but 2.

Whoah, hang on there! Sure PP was gay as a treefull of monkeys on laughing gas but I thought James Connolly was heterosexual?

While I know that you knew exactly what I was talking about and are extracting the weewee, for the folks out there who may not be as well informed. I was of course not referring to the tenuous evidence that Pearse may have been gay. I was referring to the fact that a socialist and a fairly conservative republican were involved in the same fight for Irish freedom. I'm sure they would have fallen out quickly enough once it had been achieved had they both lived.

[fourthirtythree]

Oh no, he was actually homosexual. And well known to be at the time. Honest.

So I couldn't avoid the joke. Sorry.

EDIT
Obviously given the whole Black Diaries affair it was impossible for the republicans to even begin to admit it in public (but yes, Colonel Kurtz was also very, very gay. And a bottom at that.)

[TerenureJim]

Lads why is this in the Leinster Addicts section? Surely (or maybe Shirley boom, boom) this should be in general as it's got feck all to do with rugby, whatever your views pro/anti/agnostic or just plain disinterested.

[blockhead]

I remember Nigel Owens on the radio once talking about his struggle throughout his life before he came out. And it was a serious struggle, at one stage he went out to a local park in the middle of the night with his dads gun. He was convinced that he would just not be accepted by the rugby community of which he loved and was his entire life. When he did however the reaction was just not what he expected, nobody really cared and things moved on so quickly that he was wondering why hadn't he done it years ago. Asked about abuse on the pitch since he came out he joked that he got more jibes about being Welsh.

[leinster4life13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TG2t6N9xN0

Said "offending" interview. First time watching this, people really need to relax, I dont think the Iona institute will be offering him a free years membership. Also LOL at Franno calling Michael Sam a "self publicist" with a little bit of a smirk. Trolling to the max, Outing Aaron Rodgers into the bargain, hilarious stuff. whatever you can say about this, its not malicious.

[suisse]

I've listened to the first 12:57 minutes of Franno's interview with Matt Cooper. Terrible stuff. He seems to be given licence to talk about wonderful he is, even going as far as to compliment to his writing style and how media savvy he is. Cooper is obviously his friend, so you wonder would he let the next guy off so easily. Franno's answer to Cooper's question about it is "even more surprising" how stupid he is is incredible. He talks about the twitter reaction to his comments but the language he uses, and the way he delivers it, was far more direct than when he was issuing his landmines and eggshells apology.

[blockhead]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/neil-fr ... 59375.html

Headline

Neil Francis: If Sexton was selling hot dogs in the stand he'd have had more impact than Jackson or Madigan

Neil Francis – Published 09 May 2014 11:21 AM
On a visit to a reservation, a white US government official asked the Native American chief Running Bear: “You have observed the white men for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen the progress he has made and the damage he has done. In your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?”

The chief considered the question carefully before calmly replying: “When white man find America, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water, medicine man free. Woman do all work. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing, all night long having sex.”

The chief leaned back in his chair and smiled: “Only white man dumb enough to think he can improve system like that.”

When Matt O'Connor arrived at Leinster, you would have credited him with having enough smarts to realise that he just couldn't improve on the team that he inherited from Joe Schmidt.

Silverware was like low-hanging fruit and the team in blue were pretty much irresistible.

Some labelled them as the best team in Europe – ever.

We will leave the fruit metaphors behind us after this analogy. Leinster were like a good wine – the maturity of the team was key.

It is rare that you get players like O'Driscoll, D’Arcy, Cullen and Heaslip who have played together for so long – acquired the tactical acumen, spiritual resolve and front-line experience, a potent blend. They knew what to do on the field – that is what experience is about, the principle of doing the right thing at the right time. For European success, you either grow it or you buy it.

O'Connor has an unenviable task. For some of his troops, there is nothing left to learn the hard way.

What is the best O'Connor can do? It's obvious – don't let things disimprove too much. Even before you put your imprimatur on the team – continue to do the simple things well. I'm pretty certain Leinster have not managed to even achieve that.

The term we heard for the last three seasons was ‘clinical’. An emotional detachment in the way a job was done. There was almost a psychopathic quality to the way they treated opponents. No mercy, no pity, get the job done. Leinster have regressed a little and we know champions can lose their killer instinct or their touch or their nerve. The trick is to find it again.

The match last Friday in Ravenhill will have ramifications for quite a few players who underperformed. Joe Schmidt probably regrets telling Jonny Sexton that he could have the summer off. Ian Madigan and Paddy Jackson had poor games.

Jackson got the man-of-the-match award, which was an indictment of the quality of the game. If Jonny Sexton had been selling hot dogs in the stand, he would have looked better than the two starting number 10s. No guarantees that both of them will be going to Argentina.

Their lack of quality will have brought Ian Keatley back into the equation. That isn't a back-handed compliment to Keatley.

We complimented Leinster on being the best passing team in Europe. That epithet based on their propensity for practice and more practice on the key principles of giving and receiving a pass.

In the 50th minute of that game, Leinster were repulsed close in on the Ulster line. A line-out maul and then a few individual forays had left Ulster long near the contact zone and short on the wide side.

The crowd knew it, Ulster knew it and your Granny watching it at home sensed it too. ‘Hands’ would make sure that Leinster would benefit from a big overlap. Isaac Boss, when he realised that it was on, took three steps out of the ruck and muscled a shot duck of a pass out left.

Leinster tried to skip pass it to the left wing. The quality of the passing was 3rd A's standard. All along the Leinster line it was awful – off the right hand passing left – all experienced internationals managed to take something out of the ball.

Gordon D’Arcy should have been arrested by the skills police for a crime against passing on the final pass to Dave Kearney. Kearney was so disgusted with the quality of the pass that he fell over two metres from the line in protest. Butchered? Jack the Ripper wouldn't have got a look in.

Ulster, down some of their quality players, were lucky to still be in the game at half-time.

Madigan's careless chip was just too casual, Jackson intercepted and scored and Ulster, despite being on the rack, were alive at only 9-8 down.

Leinster came out in the second half fairly certain that if they ramped it up and were a little more efficient in certain quarters, the game was

theirs. Ten minutes into the second half – deep in enemy territory – that is when Leinster take out their hunter's knife and cold-bloodedly slit the throat of their opponent. We know, in hindsight, that Shane Jennings would score 10 minutes later – but now is good. The 50th minute is a good time to put a nail in the coffin. Don't wait – do it now.

They fluffed it and fluffed it badly.

Leinster have become a little too casual, a little too sub-clinical in their approach – lazy almost! Shock horror… Frano calls the Leinster team lazy.

Let's face it – Leinster can sleepwalk their way through the Rabo and can win most of their matches with reserve-strength sides, but in their next three matches they need to show some ambition and some ruthlessness. That cold-blooded calm needs to be found again and pretty quickly.

Ulster – and it is subject to confirmation – will have Pienaar, Afoa et al available for the game in the RDS.

They will also have 15 men on the field.

After suffering repeated losses against Leinster for the last 10 years or so, Ulster will eventually figure out how to beat Leinster and the weekend of the 16/17 could be the day for some much-needed redress.

A gentle hint, then, that what Leinster have been producing just isn't good enough and they will get caught by Ulster or Glasgow if they do not up their performance levels

[Lamb of BOD]

I fail to see the connection between the meanderings at the start of his article and his point. But I;m pretty sure he's suggesting the Leinster players should be up all night having sex and if they're not, they've become lazy. Time to give Debbie a shout and see if she'll do Dublin?

[blockhead]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/g ... 60704.html

Ladyboy Francis give his tuppence worth on Leinster 2014/2015.

[nc6000]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/g ... 60704.html

Ladyboy Francis give his tuppence worth on Leinster 2014/2015.

The comments are funny. If anyone should know about useless second rows it's Franno himself!

[Darce]

hmmmm....sounds like that Sexton deal was miles away from being done, eh.

Cringey from Franno

[blockhead]

A lot of you young pups would not have been born when Francis the Talking Mule was the biggest thing on TV, I'd say even your Dads would struggle to remember. But never was there a more apt image or description for franno.