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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 9th, 2016, 8:04 pm

paddyor wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Doesn't matter what I think the American people have decided they want to take their chances with a merchant rather than a politician.
Ultimately "It's the economy stupid"

Don't run away now. Back it up. You said
Enslavement is what the current version of globalisation is all about.


Without giving any reasons or examples of why etc. I'm asking do you think a POTUS with a neo mercantile outlook wrt trade will do anything other than try to exaserbate that situation (as you see it) in his and maybe his countires favour?

I would agree with you that he will put the US first and this may well be not to our benefit but if he manages to bring some business aplomb to bear on the Fed and reign them in then we may all ultimately gain.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Peg Leg » November 9th, 2016, 8:04 pm

paddyor wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Your missing my point, I pity the developing country's that never felt the benefit of the global market.
BTW that's capitalism your bemoaning not globalisation.

The fear I have now is that the democrats point all fingers at Barack, their first Black president and his supporters as being the reason they are so distanced from their "real" Americans.

He's left the Democrats in a very sorry state. Control of no part of fed govt. Less state legs and governships and very few rising stars in the party.

His approval rating is still 54-57%. It'll probably go up as the economy tanks.

His campaign was built on gitmo, healthcare and a withdrawal from eyeraq. Once the ball got rolling on obamacare the unions destroyed it and handed the keys of the house to the republicans in one fell swoop. He even lost the god fearin' after forcing Catholic hospitals to fall in line with obamacare requirements wrt contraception and abortion.
After been bitten by the catch 22 of withdrawal from Iraq, he had no appetite to grasp the Arab spring nettle and now he's living to watch on as Syria unwinds itself in another one of Russia's proxy wars.

I'd say his library will be worth a visit all the same

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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby paddyor » November 9th, 2016, 8:05 pm

Oldschool wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Doesn't matter what I think the American people have decided they want to take their chances with a merchant rather than a politician.
Ultimately "It's the economy stupid"

Don't run away now. Back it up. You said
Enslavement is what the current version of globalisation is all about.


Without giving any reasons or examples of why etc. I'm asking do you think a POTUS with a neo mercantile outlook wrt trade will do anything other than try to exaserbate that situation (as you see it) in his and maybe his countires favour?

POTUS - had to look that up - you learn something new every day.
Government debt in the US has doubled in the US during the Obama years - TBF Bush set this trend.
Hillary would continue this trend.
At some point in time that chicken will come home to roost.
Without any real confidence I hope/think Trump will try to slow down the trend. Two examples.
He says he is going to repeal Obamacare because American can't afford it.
Hillary was promising serious funding for third level education,.
But and this is the problem where was the money going to come from.
Maybe the electorate realised one was possible and the other wasn't.

Trumps spend and cut tax plan would balloon it by a further 7bn, twice Hillarys plan per the WSJ. Further his tax cuts are centred on the top 1% which is kindof what you might expect from someone with 6 hedgies all called steve as his economic advisors. He's promised a maternity care package where the burden falls on the federal govt. (and benefits the richest again). He's promised not to touch the major entitlement programs like medicaid and medicare (the ones that actually cost billions and will continue to do so becuase of the demographics). He can't make Mexico pay for it all. Did you follow the election at all?

EDIT IMO Fiscal conservatism is likely dead everywhere in the west bar maybe the EZ (see Mays post Brexit plans for expansionary budgets). Which would be a good thing if it was accomanpied by Trade wars.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 9th, 2016, 8:49 pm

Hippo wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Hippo wrote:Is this for real? Hope??

What kind of hope do you think Hillary was offering?
Moreof the same?


This thread purports to be about Trump, not Clinton.

If this sexist, xenophobic, racist, divisive lunatic offers you hope I really don't know what to say to you.

You've claimed the high moral ground, good for you.
If I had added Hobson's choice in there would it make you feel any better.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 9th, 2016, 9:00 pm

paddyor wrote:Don't run away now. Back it up. You said

Don't be shy was the actual phrase I used IIRC.
I congratulated the next POTUS on his election victory - hardly a hanging offense.
My concession post - You are absolutely right - No matter which of them got elected it was going to be a mess.
Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby CiaranIrl » November 10th, 2016, 12:34 pm

Oldschool wrote:Trump has been contoversial but the one thing he brings is Hope.
Congratulations Donald.


The only hope is that "Melania accidentally replaces his Viagra with something that causes him to have a case of the forever drowsies" (as one waterford whispers commentator put it).
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby ronk » November 10th, 2016, 11:43 pm

He'll bring hope,

In 4 years


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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby neilinboston » November 11th, 2016, 5:10 am

Oldschool wrote:Trump has been contoversial but the one thing he brings is Hope.
Congratulations Donald.

He brings no hope if you're a woman, brown, black, Muslim, socially progressive, below upper middle class (in spite of his base).

He hasn't offered a single policy bar his tax plan which was eviscerated due to cost.

He's going to 'bomb the sh!t out of em' as foreign policy.

Repeal aca without a plan to replace/improve

Torture families of possible terrorists.

But yeah, as he's emboldened the bigots he's brought hope. Hope of a return to white supremacy.

I see you love being a contrarian but think a little. If you feel he deserves congratulations explain a single policy stance.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 11th, 2016, 9:14 am

neilinboston wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Trump has been contoversial but the one thing he brings is Hope.
Congratulations Donald.

He brings no hope if you're a woman, brown, black, Muslim, socially progressive, below upper middle class (in spite of his base).

He hasn't offered a single policy bar his tax plan which was eviscerated due to cost.

He's going to 'bomb the sh!t out of em' as foreign policy.

Repeal aca without a plan to replace/improve

Torture families of possible terrorists.

But yeah, as he's emboldened the bigots he's brought hope. Hope of a return to white supremacy.

I see you love being a contrarian but think a little. If you feel he deserves congratulations explain a single policy stance.

I'm not an apologist for Trump although some on here would like to portray me in that light and thus find me guilty by association.
Trump is an outsider and the "hope", I hope he brings is that he will shake up American politicians enough so that they realise that what they are doing is ruining America.
Clinton would give me no hope in that regard.
I will address just one of your points and it relates to your last point "White Male Supremacy".
If you are right then ask yourself who has created the environment for this - the answer is the existing governing class and the policies they have followed.
Donald Trump's election is as a result of the despair felt by a significant section of the electorate.
That's the message so don't shoot the messengers listen/help them.
Putting labels on them will change nothing and America badly needs change.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Donny B. » November 12th, 2016, 2:06 am

Hope for racist bottom-feeders who want to go back to a time when they could lynch a black man, rape a woman and beat up a homosexual without fear of consequences. This is the America of the 50's they refer to when making America 'great' again. The Alt right and neo fascist movements are delighted their candidate won so their type of vicious ignorance can again be part of the normal political discourse.

Still can't believe 25% of Americans were dumb enough to fall for his magic beans act. He is an utter fraud, a con man and a sexual predator with the temperament of a six-year old. The reason no one has a clue what he's going to do is because he has basically no policies other than building some daft wall.

I can understand discontentment with the American establishment but anyone who thinks he's going to change anything is just as deluded as the cretins who voted for him. He's already appointed career politicians like Christie and Giuliani to his team because he's basically too lazy to do any work. He can still do a huge amount of damage by reversing Obamacare, trampling gay rights, starting wars at the drop of a hat while letting Putin invade wherever he wants. That's not to mention what damage he can do to the world economy by starting trade wars with China and Europe and seeking massive tax cuts for his wealthy buddies while also funding massive infrastructure projects. Are Mexico going to pay for everything?

The only satisfying thing is the lowlife thrash that voted for him will see their lives made infinitely worse by the time he's finished. They'll probably be too thick to understand that though and blame the muslim socialist Obama instead.
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Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 12th, 2016, 10:43 am

The elephant in the room is that the bulk of local government is controlled by the GOP, from talking with Americans colleagues they can make it incredibly difficult for the poorer urban left leaning population to vote, for example making a driving licence or passport mandatory ID in areas where people use public transport and never fly internationally.

Though I've not seen the voter stats, I've been told that the millennial vote was a lot less than was expected, so there's two natural democrat demographics that did not or could not easily turn up.

Also heard of anecdotes where college students were denied postal ballots to their home states, example girl in UCLA denied postal ballot to Texas - which was a close call.

It appears that the worlds greatest democracy may just have a gerrymandering issue.


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the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 12th, 2016, 12:04 pm

You guys need to start thinking for yourselves and stop believing everything you read that's written by a basically left wing media with a very narrow agenda.
To block free speech.
The minute anyone says anything contrarian everyone is hopping up and down shouting bigot, sexist, racist anything to intimidate them into silence.
That's an attempt at bullying btw just remember that the next time you refer to somebody in those terms based on your own prejudices.
Trump was elected by the democratic will of the American people, quite frankly we have a cheek to be calling them morons.
Europe is on its' knees economically speaking because our left wing politicians are doing such a good job.
America is in a similar mess.
If you think Hillary was going to do anything about the absolutely awful economic mess that America is in you are in denial.
Instead of throwing the rattle out of the pram, the adult thing to do is to stop the name calling and face up to the fact that for better or worse Donald Trump is the next President of America and we have to deal with him.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 12th, 2016, 12:09 pm

Yup, that's part of it. The people who vote have been told they're wrong for the guts of eight years by the people who didn't vote. No surprises there was a backlash . But that's not the full story


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the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Oldschool » November 12th, 2016, 12:31 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Yup, that's part of it. The people who vote have been told they're wrong for the guts of eight years by the people who didn't vote. No surprises there was a backlash . But that's not the full story


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And the other part of it is that there are approx 400M Americans and their surnames are not all Trump.
A lot of them come here on holidays and spend their money here.
A lot of their businesses invest in this country and give jobs to Irish people and they are not all called Trump Enterprises.
A lot of those Americans are uncomfortable with Trump but now that he's their president elect don't underestimate what we would refer to as the "green card" (jersey?).
Is it really wise to be insulting these people?
It's time to move on.
The American political system is full of checks and balances, Trump won't be as bad as some would have us believe and he won't be as good as he would have us believe.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Peg Leg » November 12th, 2016, 1:07 pm

Oldschool wrote:You guys need to start thinking for yourselves and stop believing everything you read that's written by a basically left wing media with a very narrow agenda.
To block free speech.
The minute anyone says anything contrarian everyone is hopping up and down shouting bigot, sexist, racist anything to intimidate them into silence.
That's an attempt at bullying btw just remember that the next time you refer to somebody in those terms based on your own prejudices.


There are lots of tropes used by the right and left and this is one of them. I tend to disagree with any level of "identification" or defined group as a single entity. Mainly because I don't think any one person should feel they are in a position to cast judgement on any other person if they are living within the constraints of the states laws which they occupy. Why should your opinion or mine hold more weight? Some people have different preferences to me, but that's none of my business. It's change most people aggravate against, in whatever form it takes.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Dave Cahill » November 12th, 2016, 1:18 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Why should your opinion or mine hold more weight? .



Because some people are just f%~king wrong, thats why. When did giving equal value to idiotic opinons held by morons become a thing?

"The earth is flat"
"No it isn't you mouthbreathing cockwomble"
"Hey, thats my opinion, you must give it equal weight"
<bangs head against wall>
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Hornet » November 12th, 2016, 1:45 pm

Why are we hurling abuse at those who voted? Why are people not directing their anger at those who were able to vote, but didn't get up off their lazy arses, and take part in a Democratic decision that would affect them. (Too busy probably updating their Facebook Page, Twitter Account, Instagram, having another Latte). Why are they not directing their anger towards the parties for putting forward two of the poorest choices for election for President in my lifetime. You have a vote. F*****g well use it!
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby neilinboston » November 12th, 2016, 1:52 pm

Oldschool wrote:You guys need to start thinking for yourselves and stop believing everything you read that's written by a basically left wing media with a very narrow agenda.
To block free speech.
The minute anyone says anything contrarian everyone is hopping up and down shouting bigot, sexist, racist anything to intimidate them into silence.

I'm going to jump in right here without reading any more.
Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers
Grab women by the pussy
Ban all muslims

This isn't some imagined impression of the man. These are examples of how he whipped the uneducated masses into a frenzy and gave voice to their hatred.

These aren't things that should be hateful to left wing liberal democrats. These should be hateful to all people.

The left wing free speech hating media gave him an inordinate amount of air time because ... ratings.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby neilinboston » November 12th, 2016, 1:59 pm

neilinboston wrote:
Oldschool wrote:You guys need to start thinking for yourselves and stop believing everything you read that's written by a basically left wing media with a very narrow agenda.
To block free speech.
The minute anyone says anything contrarian everyone is hopping up and down shouting bigot, sexist, racist anything to intimidate them into silence.

I'm going to jump in right here without reading any more.
Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers
Grab women by the pussy
Ban all muslims

This isn't some imagined impression of the man. These are examples of how he whipped the uneducated masses into a frenzy and gave voice to their hatred.

These aren't things that should be hateful to left wing liberal democrats. These should be hateful to all people.

The left wing free speech hating media gave him an inordinate amount of air time because ... ratings.

I read the rest. I understand that you're pointing out that we can't tar all trump voters with the same brush. I agree entirely. It's the same as calling all Mexicans rapists or calling for a blanket ban on muslims.
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Re: Congratulations President Trump

Postby Peg Leg » November 12th, 2016, 2:48 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Why should your opinion or mine hold more weight? .



Because some people are just f%~king wrong, thats why. When did giving equal value to idiotic opinons held by morons become a thing?

"The earth is flat"
"No it isn't you mouthbreathing cockwomble"
"Hey, thats my opinion, you must give it equal weight"
<bangs head against wall>

Equal weight is a load of b*%&!x with regards to the media, that prevents debate. But someone is entitled to an opinion, even if they are wrong. The difficulties come about where they refuse to listen to anything other than their opinion, then they are the ones not tolerating the alternative.
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